Public Accounts — Issue No. 19 — Tuesday, May 13, 2008 (HTML)

2008 Legislative Session: Fourth Session, 38th Parliament
SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
MINUTES AND HANSARD

Present: Rob Fleming, MLA (Chair); Joan McIntyre, MLA (Deputy Chair); Harry Bains, MLA; Iain Black, MLA; Randy Hawes, MLA; Mary Polak, MLA; John Rustad, MLA; Bob Simpson, MLA; Ralph Sultan, MLA; Claire Trevena, MLA; John Yap, MLA

Unavoidably Absent: Bruce Ralston, MLA

Others Present: Errol Price, Deputy Auditor General; Cheryl Wenezenki-Yolland, Comptroller General; Josie Schofield, Committee Research Analyst

2. The Committee considered the Auditor General’s report entitled Literacy: Creating the Conditions for Reading and Writing Success - 2007/08 – Report 6.

3. Resolved, that the Committee endorse the recommendations contained in the Auditor General’s report entitled Literacy: Creating the Conditions for Reading and Writing Success; and as it is satisfied with the progress being made by the Ministry of Education, the Committee recommends that no further action be taken at this time.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS



CONTENTS

		Page

Auditor General Report: Literacy: Creating the Conditions for Reading and Writing Success		379
	E. Price
	N. Glendinning
	J. Gorman
	E. Gaudet

Chair:	* Rob Fleming (Victoria-Hillside NDP)
Deputy Chair:	* Joan McIntyre (West Vancouver–Garibaldi L)
Members:	* Iain Black (Port Moody–Westwood L) * Randy Hawes (Maple Ridge–Mission L) * Mary Polak (Langley L) * John Rustad (Prince George–Omineca L) * Ralph Sultan (West Vancouver–Capilano L) * John Yap (Richmond-Steveston L) * Harry Bains (Surrey-Newton NDP) Bruce Ralston (Surrey-Whalley NDP) * Bob Simpson (Cariboo North NDP) * Claire Trevena (North Island NDP) * denotes member present


Witnesses:	Eve Gaudet (Ministry of Education) Norma Glendinning (Office of the Auditor General) James Gorman (Deputy Minister of Education) Errol Price (Deputy Auditor General) Jean-Luc Tetreault (Office of the Auditor General) Cheryl Wenezenki-Yolland (Comptroller General)

R. Fleming (Chair): Good morning, Members. Welcome to Public Accounts Committee, and thank you for being here this morning. We have witnesses from the Auditor General's office and from the ministry to present and discuss report findings on report No. 6, Literacy: Creating the Conditions for Reading and Writing Success.

I see that Mr. Errol Price is before us this morning, who is the Deputy Auditor General and carrying a lot of weight on his shoulders these days in the office. We appreciate him being here to introduce his audit team and to begin the hearing this morning.

Welcome, Errol, and thank you for being here. I'll turn the floor over to you for the presentation after I ask for a motion to approve the agenda.

Auditor General Report:
Literacy: Creating the Conditions
for Reading and Writing Success

E. Price: Chair, Deputy Chair and members, good morning. As I think you all know, John Doyle, the Auditor General, is unable to be with us today, but he hopes to be back in B.C. in a few weeks' time.

The report you are discussing today was tabled in February 2008. It was just the second performance audit report issued by the new Auditor General, and although the work was nearing completion when he took office, John Doyle has taken a keen interest in this work and in the resultant report, as reflected in his opening comments in the report.

With me today are Norma Glendinning, project director and the lead player on this piece of work, and Mr. Jean-Luc Tetreault, one of our project managers. The rest of our audit team included Susan Jennings, an assistant Auditor General who has since retired, and Miss Amy Hart, another project manager.

We decided to undertake this audit because promotion of literacy is an area of significant government activity. I think there's general agreement that good literacy skills are essential to full participation in our social, cultural, economic and political lives.

Like most other jurisdictions across North America, the province is facing growing competition for skilled workers nationally and internationally, so nurturing and promoting an educated workforce is becoming increasingly important. What's more, while B.C. ranks well among the top jurisdictions in Canada and elsewhere, there is room to improve.

According to the international adult literacy and skills survey conducted in 2003, some 40 percent of adult British Columbians have low English literacy skills. Recognizing the need for improvement, the provincial government moved to make literacy one of its top priorities. In 2004 it stated that it wanted B.C. to be recognized as "the most literate jurisdiction in North America" by 2010. Subsequently, the time line for the achievement of this goal was pushed out to 2015.

In our audit we examined how well the Ministries of Education and Advanced Education and a selection of school districts and post-secondary institutions were planning and managing the province's efforts to reach this goal. We found that the government has demonstrated some leadership in the last few years by developing a provincewide strategy for literacy and by encouraging better coordination and collaboration amongst key stakeholders.

We also concluded that the province's literacy framework and plans need to be supported by better information about target groups and their needs, implementation costs and funding options. We also suggested that more attention to outreach is needed so that literacy learners are aware of the services available to them.

Finally, we concluded that improved monitoring and reporting are needed to allow better assessments of progress and adjustments of approaches as necessary in order to achieve government's goal. Our report includes six recommendations for improving the planning and management of government's literacy initiative in British Columbia.

With that, I'll now turn over to Norma and ask her to present the key points from our report, including the recommendations.

N. Glendinning: Thank you, Errol, and good morning, Members. I'm pleased to present to you today our findings and recommendations from our literacy audit.

In this audit we set out to assess how well the Ministries of Education and Advanced Education, as well as a selection of post-secondary institutions and school districts, were planning and managing the province's efforts to reach its literacy goal.

More specifically, we set out to answer the following three questions: (1) How effectively have provincewide and local efforts been coordinated to meet the literacy objectives? (2) Is there a provincial strategic framework for literacy in place, one based on good information? (3) How effectively is progress being monitored and reported?

As I said, this audit included two ministries: the Ministry of Education as the lead for literacy and the Ministry of Advanced Education as the ministry responsible for adult literacy. We also included four school districts, which were Prince George, Kamloops-Thompson, Vancouver and Campbell River. And we included four post-secondary institutions, which were the College of New Caledonia, Thompson Rivers University, Vancouver Community College and North Island College. Our selection was for illustrative purposes only and was not meant to be statistically representative.

Our choice of what areas to include in our audit was risk-based. So we only looked at services being provided to adults and to children within the kindergarten-to-grade-12 system. What this means is that we were not able to look at the efforts underway for early learning or other important areas or in detail at services being provided to aboriginal people, immigrants or special education students.

Our overall conclusion was that government has demonstrated some leadership in the last few years by developing a provincewide strategy for literacy, but what it will cost to implement the strategy is still unknown. It has also made progress in encouraging better coordination and collaboration with the key stakeholders, but more needs to be done if it hopes to reach the literacy goal by 2015.

For the remainder of the presentation, I'm going to tell you about our key findings and recommendations for four key themes within the report: coordination, outreach, strategic planning, and monitoring and reporting.

First of all, coordination. Numerous agencies are involved in delivering literacy services in the province. This includes ten ministries, 60 school districts, 26 post-secondary institutions and a host of non-profit agencies and other community partners. With so many organizations involved in delivering literacy in the province, we decided to look at how well these efforts were being coordinated.

We found that coordination has been challenging, but progress is being made. At the provincial level some coordination mechanisms are definitely in place, but if B.C. is to reach its literacy target, further improvements are needed. For example, there is a need to establish a more seamless process for improving literacy of English-as-a-second-language learners, and there is a need to implement the adult opportunities action plan.

We also looked for effective coordination at the local or community level. We found at the time of our audit that no agency had been assigned lead responsibility for coordinating efforts at the local level. Consequently, programs and delivery varied from community to community. However, recent amendments to the School Act are intended to change this, as the boards of education, which used to be called school boards, are now responsible for developing literacy plans at the community level.

We also looked at government's efforts to raise awareness of the literacy services already available to literacy learners. Since studies have found that enrolment by adults in literacy-training programs is typically low, we expected that the government might address this through a couple of different ways: (1) by raising awareness of literacy through provincewide awareness campaigns or (2) by offering people a single point of access in their communities to information on literacy programs and services available. In the report we called this a one-window approach.

We found that neither of these strategies had yet been fully employed. Therefore, we recommended that the Ministry of Education, the boards of education as well as the Ministry of Advanced Education and the post-secondary institutions should all work together to develop ways to encourage greater use of the literacy services available. We suggested that this might be done through the provincewide awareness campaigns on literacy and one-window approaches to delivering information on literacy at both the provincial and local levels.

Another theme we reported on was strategic planning. A well-thought-out strategy for improving literacy levels across the province is necessary if British Columbia is to reach its target by 2015. Therefore, we expected the Ministry of Education, as the lead for literacy, to develop a strategic framework, one based on good information and consultations with key stakeholders such as the Ministry of Advanced Education and other ministries and other stakeholders.

What we found was that the Ministry of Education did provide government with a proposal for a strategic framework, but it did not provide sufficient data about the needs of the populations it was planning to target for its strategies or estimates of what each strategy would cost or funding options.

We therefore recommended that the Ministry of Education develop implementation plans that are supported by more comprehensive data and information on the needs of the population that it's targeting and on costing information for each of its strategies to improve literacy.

We also looked at the planning efforts of the school districts and post-secondary institutions, because we recognize that literacy services are delivered in the communities, which means that government's goal can only be met if the efforts of all of the organizations — including the boards of education, the schools and the post-secondary institutions — are aligned towards achieving the same goal.

At the four school districts and four post-secondary institutions we visited, we concluded that despite a lack of direction from government in terms of a common definition for literacy, some planning was occurring at the school districts but less so at the post-secondary institutions.

We also noted that more direction is now being provided by government. The recent revisions to the School Act, for example, include a definition for literacy, a requirement that the boards of education consult with community partners in developing their community literacy plans and the introduction of an accountability framework focused on achievement.

Therefore, we recommended that the Ministry of Education provide appropriate support, such as guidance and resources, to the boards of education in development of their literacy plans and reports. We also recommended that they monitor implementation of the revised accountability framework and assess the effectiveness of the framework with respect to its focus on literacy.

We also recommended that the boards of education develop their literacy plans in the context of the provincial strategic framework and in consultation with key organizations within their communities to determine what their needs are and to develop strategies to address these needs.

Our last area of focus is on monitoring and reporting. To manage and oversee literacy programs and projects effectively, the agencies involved all need reliable information on the expected and actual costs as well as on the effectiveness of these activities. Given the importance of literacy and the fact that it is one of government's five great goals, such information is critical to monitoring the progress to date so that adjustments can be made as necessary to achieve the goal.

We found that improved monitoring and reporting are required at all levels. Although ministry-level reporting is being conducted, there is no provincewide reporting or a requirement for the boards of education to report back on the community literacy plans that they're developing. There is also still a need to obtain more precise data and to develop better methods and measures for monitoring and reporting, especially for the populations being targeted for the literacy strategic framework.

Consequently, we recommended that the Ministry of Education ensure that monitoring and reporting at all levels — provincial, ministry and community — be aligned with evidence-based qualitative and quantitative performance measures. We also recommended that the boards of education work with key stakeholders within their communities to measure progress and adjust strategies as necessary to meet local needs and report annually on the progress they make within their communities in achieving the literacy objectives identified in their community literacy plans.

Finally, we recommended that the government issue a provincewide annual report on its progress in achieving its literacy goals and objectives.

E. Price: No, Mr. Chair. I think we've covered what we wanted to cover, so we're happy to take questions now, or perhaps you'd like to hear from the ministry, and then we can have a discussion.

R. Fleming (Chair): Committee, I think we'll hear from the Ministry of Education. They have a presentation for us.

Mr. Gorman, welcome this morning. I see you're joined by Eve Gaudet, and we want to welcome her as well. You have a presentation, so I would like to welcome you to the Public Accounts Committee and ask you to introduce yourself and begin your presentation.

J. Gorman: Thank you very much, Chair and Deputy Chair and Members. My name is James Gorman. I'm the Deputy Minister of Education, and I'm joined by Eve Gaudet, who is the executive lead for literacy in the Ministry of Education. We're pleased to be here this morning.

As has been pointed out by the Auditor General's office, in British Columbia we do have the goal to be the most literate jurisdiction in North America by 2015. We are proud to be a leader in the country with respect to our initiatives in literacy. We have certainly welcomed the Auditor General's report as a way to help what we feel has been quite a successful strategy, to make it more successful. We felt that the report has been quite constructive in that regard, and we do have some progress to report, which we're very pleased about.

What I've asked Eve to do is walk you through a brief overview presentation, to talk a little bit about some of the concrete things we're doing under each of those recommendations. Then we'd be pleased to take your questions.

E. Gaudet: Thank you for giving us this opportunity. Our colleagues from the Office of the Auditor General provided a really good background around the audit, so I'm just going to move right in to talk about the scope.

I just want to highlight the fact that…. Two things. As we discuss the recommendations and our response to the recommendations, we're doing it in the greater context of literacy. The audit really focused on a very narrow slice of literacy, as you can see. Out of scope was early learning, aboriginal and special education students, English as a second language, essential skills in family literacy as well as education standards, trainer capacity and support for learners.

When we begin to talk about literacy in this presentation and when we answer your questions, we look at literacy in a far larger scope. We look at it through all life stages, and we look at it in key populations — for example, aboriginal people.

We did issue a joint official response with the Ministry of Advanced Education, the four school districts that were involved and post-secondary institutions. Again, I'd like to highlight, as James did, that the report is very constructive, and while it credits government for its leadership, it also provided us with some very clear and important advice in terms of how to move forward.

I won't go through and read the recommendations, because my colleague Norma did that for us. If you just want to have a quick glance, and then we'll move right into how we are acting upon that recommendation.

We are very much involved with a public awareness strategy, and we are doing it at the provincial, community as well as the pan-Canadian level. We're currently collaborating with our key provincial literacy partners to implement a very comprehensive approach to public awareness. Literacy B.C., being one of our key stakeholder groups, supports the 1-800 number and the database of all literacy programs and services that cover all B.C. communities. Learners can either call in or go on line and find out where the programs and services are for them, based on the type of service they are looking for.

We also have Literacy Now, part of 2010 Legacies, which is developing a communication toolkit of mate-

rial and templates for communities — how to work with the local media, organizing events, local public relations and awareness of literacy.

We took this approach because we believe that learners work, live and play in their communities and that given the type of needs that they have, they are best served and connected to within the context of the community, which is the underpinning of our literacy framework.

With the exception of the highly successful Council of Ministers of Education Pan-Canadian Interactive Literacy Forum…. It generated literacy awareness from coast to coast to coast The components you see are focused on the learner and the communities that support them. And I say exception because that is at the pan-Canadian level, and as James alluded to, B.C. provided leadership on that — hugely successful. It was really about adding to the movement that we're creating in B.C., as well as across the country, around literacy as a culture of learning.

Recommendation 2. We take this very seriously — the efforts to improve data and support planning. This is not something that is unique to B.C., so we have spent an awful lot of time over the past while working on a monitoring framework that will enable us to hone in on where the gaps exist in order to target funding and resources appropriately.

We have targets that are specific for each of the four pillars within ReadNow B.C. — that is, early learning, K-to-12, adult and aboriginal people. The measurement tools that we are going to be using or are currently using are primarily quantitative, such as graduation rates, foundation skills assessment and a scaled version of the international adult literacy and skills survey. The tools are also meant to assess progress at the learner level — community and provincial levels.

To support planning, a cost analysis is currently underway. It'll provide a greater understanding of the effectiveness of our current investments and where we need to target in the future. We are wrapping up an analysis of current expenditures, and it's actually sitting in my deputy's office at the moment for review. Once completed, we will undertake a cost estimate for the new components of the literacy action plan. A third step, as I said, will be to ensure that expenditures align with programs and services in the most effective way possible.

Recommendation 3, part A. The Ministry of Education, in particular, is doing a number of things on this front. We have superintendents that provide boards with support and guidance in collaboration with Literacy and Literacy B.C., our two key provincial stakeholders, as they develop their district literacy plans. In fact, we have put in a superintendent of literacy and lifelong learning, who is taking the lead on this piece. As well, she works with the K-to-12 sector in helping to improve and find better and innovative ways to address literacy in the school system.

We've undertaken a series of regional district literacy planning forums that brought together key stakeholders, boards of education, colleges, libraries, literacy organizations, early learning, aboriginal organizations and others to begin the collaboration, the planning process for their district literacy plans.

This was really important, because while we have had, through Literacy Now, a community planning structure that has been undertaken over the past four years — where over 200 communities now are engaged in community literacy planning — we needed to bring in the boards of education and help them to understand their role, based on the legislation that has been brought through.

We have regional literacy coordinators that are ensuring that coordination at the college and regional levels connect with the district and community levels. The regional literacy coordinators are attached to the colleges in the post-secondary sector, and they have been doing their job at the regional level in the province for a number of years. However, their support was year-to-year funding.

The Ministry of Advanced Education just recently announced that they will provide ongoing funding for these positions. They will now be full time, and there are 16 of them. They will then be working with boards of education to make that link, as well as at the provincial level.

We also have a sustainable, systemwide coordinating infrastructure, which actually is what I was just talking about, that is going to connect the community and district, the regional and provincial levels, to ensure coordination from the ground up and across sectors and up to levels of government.

Ministries of Education and Advanced Education also work at the school district superintendents and college presidents level to enhance coordination. They have ongoing meetings together to ensure that they're all on side with literacy and how they can move forward collectively.

As I mentioned earlier, we've also developed a monitoring framework to track the literacy progress for each of our pillars using a range of appropriate tools and instruments. Information on the progress will be available early 2009.

Second part of recommendation No. 3. I'd like to draw your attention to our district literacy plans. They are encouraged to be developed within the context of ReadNow B.C., our literacy action plan and framework's four pillars that I alluded to earlier: early learning, school age, and adults including immigrants and in the workplace, particularly focused on those two areas. The fourth pillar is on aboriginal people.

The district literacy plans are legislated, and they must be a living document that is developed in collaboration with all key stakeholders in the district served. They are not simply something that a district writes up, submits annually to the ministry and expects everything to be fine. These are done in collaboration with all the key stakeholders in the community that they serve. It must be inclusive of all life stages and should reflect the demographic and social context of the respective district.

We also have boards of education that have a requirement to have achievement contracts in serving their K-to-12 population, and they are now a legislated requirement. Each achievement contract must have literacy as a priority.

There's recommendation No. 4. Again, the monitoring and performance will be improved by, at a provincial level…. I highlighted earlier that the monitoring framework identifies the targets and outcomes we're working toward and the measures and tools required to track our progress. The quantitative data collected will not only provide useful information on tracking our progress, but we can use the data to adjust programs and services to ensure that we're moving toward our goals.

At the local level, similar accountabilities are required in the district literacy plans based on the goals of the respective communities and districts served. A district literacy planning guide has been developed to identify to boards of education what is required to monitor the implementation of their plans and the accountabilities required.

Finally, in summary, this is what we know. Government is committed to the literacy agenda and to improving literacy for all ages and all populations. The investments in time and resources will begin to show results in fiscal 2010 and beyond.

The OAG recommendations have provided sound advice that is being acted on in year 2 of the implementation of ReadNow B.C. What we are really doing here is creating a cultural shift. We are creating a culture of learning and literacy, and that takes time. But in the last few years that I've been working on the file…. Literacy wasn't even part of the general lexicon, and I'm happy to say that I actually believe it is.

Committee members, the floor is now yours to ask some questions about the report, unless witnesses want to add anything further that may have occurred to them, which they left out of their presentations.

H. Bains: Thank you very much for the report. I think it's refreshing that we are moving into an area that is very important for us as British Columbians.

I've got some questions then — a series of questions, actually. To start with, perhaps you could give us some baseline numbers — for example, 2004 when the announcement was made. What were the numbers at that particular time? What are the targets for 2015, or what are the targets for 2010? Do we know what the literacy numbers were in 2004, and what were the targets set — if any targets were set?

E. Gaudet: The two key areas that we were working from at that point and that the Premier was alluding to were particularly around the adult. That is basically that there are one million adults between the ages of 16 and 65 in B.C. right now — and the same back then, as far as we know, and I'll caveat that — who do not have the levels of literacy required to function effectively in a knowledge-based society.

That was drawn from the international adult literacy and skills survey. Unfortunately, that survey is only conducted every nine years. That makes it really challenging for us to be able to track progress.

We are doing some things — in fact, this summer — as part of our literacy-monitoring framework. We are conducting — and we are the first ones in Canada to do this, the first jurisdiction…. We are doing an evaluation that is what we refer to as a mini-IALSS so that we can look at B.C. and begin, every two years now, to do a mini-IALSS and focus in on the general population and do some subsampling with aboriginal people and immigrants. We're also going to look at young people in the transition period — so between the ages of 19 and 22. That's going to begin to give us an idea.

So it was one million as we begin to do this new mini-IALSS, because the next IALSS…. We're not going to have results until 2013.

We also looked at the early learning. There's one in four children coming to school not ready to be successful in their learning. That's huge; that's 25 percent. That's based on the Hertzman work done out of UBC.

That's a really important piece of information for us. As you know, we've put in our StrongStarts centres. We're directed in the throne speech to look at the costs and feasibility of doing a full-day kindergarten as well as a pre-kindergarten. That's a huge area that needs to be looked at as well.

We do have some targets that we set. Just to give you an idea of what those look like…. We were looking at increasing the number of children entering school ready to be successful from 75 percent to 78 percent in three years and 85 percent in ten years.

In school age, we're looking to increase secondary school completion from 79 percent to 82 percent in three years, and 85 percent in ten years. In adults, we're looking at increasing the number of adults achieving the international adult literacy skills survey level 3 or equivalent from 65 percent to 67 percent in three years, and in ten years 70 percent.

That gives you an idea of the kinds of targets. They're lofty, but I think they're achievable with what we're doing.

H. Bains: In order to become the most literate province in the country…. We would have to have the numbers in other provinces as well. Are the other provinces having any programs similar to ours? Or will they be staying there, and we will keep on improving?

E. Gaudet: Oh yes, everybody is coming on board with literacy. What's unique about B.C. and why I think we have an edge is that we were the first jurisdiction, as far as I'm aware, to really begin to look at literacy as an all-age stage position.

In other jurisdictions they tend to look at the K-to-12 sector and literacy in that or in adult, and they're separate solitudes. We have really moved forward on our literacy agenda by saying: "You know what? Each age stage is important, as are the subpopulations." If you do it within that context and don't just hone in on one area and put your new resources and your targets around that, you're going to have much greater success. It's a seamless approach.

It also makes sense, because you have things like family literacy, for example, where you have adults that could have low literacy, and then they have their young children. You put them together, and it's a huge motive for a parent when they have a young child. If their reading skills are low and their literacy is low, that's a huge motivator for them to become engaged and improve their literacy.

So we have set up family literacy — for example, the StrongStart and the Parents as Literacy Supporters programs. It's not that effective to just look at one particular segment. It all works in tandem — as well, with aboriginal people, elders and youth. That's the approach.

H. Bains: I just want to move on to the other. I think that's just the one component — the children entering into the school system and children who are in the system. In my view, that probably is the easier part to handle, because they are in the system. But there's another component here, as the Auditor General's report shows.

Again, one in four or one in five workers is basically functionally illiterate in their workplaces. When I looked at your presentation and discussion all through here, there's very little emphasis on how to reach out at workplaces. I haven't seen any area on how you make the workers aware of what programs are available. Their workers' representatives, their organizations, are not included in this. Employers are not included in this.

When I see some of the awareness tactics that are here, they're good — having the ActNow website and others. Well, we're talking about folks who are illiterate. They're not equipped to go on a website and find out what is needed and what programs are available. Someone else has to provide them that information.

I think the best place to do that is to go to the workplaces, go to the employers, go to the workers organizations and provide them that information so that the workers at workplaces who are having extreme difficulty in reading and writing and participating fully at the workplace…. Whether it's a health and safety program or other training program…. I haven't seen much in there, unless I missed it.

That is a major component of the overall program, as I see the second half. But there's hardly any emphasis on bringing those folks on board and making sure that they can get the information they need and equip themselves so that they're prepared for the workplace requirements they need.

E. Gaudet: Your comments are really good ones, and I'm really glad that you brought them up. Actually, workplace literacy and learning is a huge part. It is one of the two subfeatures of the adult pillar.

You're right. It's really important, because what we do know is that there's a large number of the adults in that million who are actually employed. So they are functioning with low levels of literacy. A lot of them are in positions where you don't typically use your literacy or numeracy on a day-to-day basis. If you don't use it, you lose it.

In fact, there are a number of things that we are doing. The Ministry of Advanced Education has, under the adult opportunity strategy that is part of ReadNow B.C., outlined a number of key things that we are doing right now and are going to continue to do.

We're working with the Ministry of Economic Development on the labour market agreement, and that literacy is a foundation of the agreement that was made with the federal government. We are targeting key areas, for example, in the service industry or trucking industry. So we're currently planning and working together with our colleagues in other ministries — jointly at a cross-ministerial level — to begin to see how we can made headway into that.

One of the ways that we're looking at — and we have a proposal in to do a joint project with the federal government — is around embedding literacy. In the workplace the most important way to breed success is to look at the context that the person is working in. You provide literacy opportunities within the context of what they're doing, so it makes sense to them so that they can use it right away.

While I didn't at the 50,000-foot level talk about it in here, there is an awful lot going on around workplace literacy. As I said, the Ministry of Advanced Education has the lead on that. Part of our function in the Ministry of Education is to ensure that we are doing that.

H. Bains: I hear some statements. I heard some planning. But can you show me anywhere that you have certain programs where I could say: "There they are, and that's how you're approaching workplaces"?

E. Gaudet: Yes, we do. We have a number of things. One of them is that we've also been working with the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance to make sure there is funding available to make

access to literacy programs and services. We had a conference in the fall where we brought together a huge number of sectors of labour and business to talk about this.

There are a number of smaller initiatives that have been funded through the Ministry of Advanced Education and the Ministry of Employment and Income Assistance, which go into actual workplaces — for example, where they go in and have literacy classes — and we're funding those. They work with sectors or in a large company to define what exactly those workers need and provide that within their job function. So there's a whole list of them, and I'd be happy to provide them to you.

I've got a couple of questions, if you'll permit me. The report mentions that different jurisdictions have different definitions of literacy, each school district, and that Advanced Education is looking at slightly different needs. I wondered what the definition is that the ministry was using for literacy and whether that also includes numeracy.

E. Gaudet: Yes. All of the ministries, including Advanced Education. How we've been talking about it with all our boards of education and colleges in B.C. is that we have aligned ourselves with the definition that comes out of the OECD, who are the sponsors of the international adult literacy skills survey. The definition is that you have the skills and abilities to be able to function in a knowledge-based society. Under that umbrella are included both literacy — reading, comprehension, writing — and numeracy.

C. Trevena: A very quick follow-up on that. Like my colleague, I'm surprised that one of the tools you're using is web-based. So is there also computer literacy in this? As somebody who is uncertain about their skills to actually access any program through a computer, I think it would be very, very challenging.

E. Gaudet: Well, you know what? That is what I would have thought when I started out on this, but interestingly enough, I think you have to approach and provide multiple entry points for people to have that information. When we talk about literacy, people have various levels of literacy.

There are actually very few people who we would ever term illiterate. Illiterate means that you simply cannot read and write, and your oral language is very low. People have varying levels.

Most people, from what we've discovered, actually can get on a computer or can be assisted by doing it. They can use the phone and a 1-800 number to get what they need. When we talk about literacy, there is a whole continuum of the level. Whatever we do and however we approach both public awareness and an entry point for potential learners, we need to come at it in multiple ways. There is no one way, just like there is no one specific profile of somebody with low literacy.

The other question I have is on your early literacy programs. You say that one in four children is coming to school not ready to learn. I think anyone around this side of the table would know that's the same level of one in four children in poverty, so it matches the Clyde Hertzman figures as well.

C. Trevena: You mentioned that you're doing feasibility for kindergarten and pre-kindergarten. Is that tied in with the ministerial announcement in the budget on the early learning agreement?

J. Gorman: With respect to early learning, we have several commitments. We have opened 85 StrongStart centres across the province. We have a commitment to ensure that that number reaches 200 by the end of this year and 400 by the end of next year. In addition, we've been asked to conduct a feasibility study with a view of providing all-day kindergarten for five-year-olds by 2010, optional all-day programming for four-year-olds by 2010 and for three-year-olds by 2012. We've begun that feasibility work now, and we've been tasked with reporting out to government by the end of the calendar year.

C. Trevena: One final thing. Eve, you were mentioning family literacy. You were saying family literacy and StrongStarts; you're tying the two together. Is that your perception as a ministry of how the two are going to work?

E. Gaudet: Absolutely. StrongStart centres were brought in for a number of reasons. I think what we need to begin to understand is that literacy really is the foundation for everything.

It was interesting. I was listening to a documentary about Afghanistan, and the current general from Canada was speaking. He talked about water and talked about shelter, and he talked about literacy as the foundation for a healthy lifestyle. I really think we're moving into that whole domain. Literacy is a foundation, so that's how we're approaching it.

M. Polak: I guess as a sidebar before my question, I was intrigued by the definition of literacy portion of the Auditor General's report. Having been on the Education Committee, we spent hours examining different submissions on definitions of literacy, and poor Josie was tasked with trying to narrow it down. Actually, I was quite pleased to find that a determined definition of literacy had been adopted by the Ministry of Education, school districts notwithstanding. They have an independent streak, as we all know — and I say that advisably.

I think that giving it a place to hang that is closer to what an individual person would expect is what we

came down to. While philosophically there are all sorts of a broad array of literacy, most people want to be able to read and write well enough to get a job and do the things they need to do. I'm pleased to see something a little more grounded and commonsense, I guess.

One of the things I'd like to hear your thoughts on is with respect to targets. In education, as in other fields, you can often be a victim of your own success in the sense that it's very easy — relatively easy, I suppose I should say — to get those first bumps up in data. Certainly in B.C. we've got — what? — 60 percent of adults who are rated with the appropriate skill level. We've got comparatively high completion rates.

How do you then continue that upward trend when things tend, in implementation, to either dip or settle out and stay there? What's the extra push that's going to get us beyond that?

E. Gaudet: Those are good comments. First of all, this is not an easy task. With that, we have to take multiple approaches to it, which is why we set up ReadNow B.C., the literacy action plan and framework that targeted key areas.

We really have to be cognizant of our demographic here. It's very unique in B.C., similar to a couple of other jurisdictions. We have a very high immigration population coming in. Notwithstanding that most of them come in with very high levels of literacy and education, there is also a huge proportion that continues to come in…. It's like the conveyor belt, and they are coming in with literacy needs. We have to continue to really hone in on those populations.

As well, aboriginal people — we really have to begin to work with them so that they can help determine what they need, and we can help support them on those areas. Those are the two key areas that we're going to have to be very vigilant about in order to kind of tip us over and continue.

But it will never stop, because obviously in our province we need immigrants, and we need workers. We need to continue to provide them with the supports and be aware of that over the next few years and then beyond to keep those literacy levels up.

M. Polak: Finally, you talked about the cultural shift. We know that no matter what plans we put in place at a provincial level or at a school district level, at the end of the day in K-to-12 it comes down to that teacher in front of that classroom and whether or not they see themselves as a literacy teacher, in spite of the fact that they only teach social studies or science or what have you.

What kinds of things are we doing to ensure that the cultural shift takes place at that level? How are we supporting school districts to achieve that?

E. Gaudet: The fact that we identified and appointed a superintendent of literacy and lifelong learning is huge. That's only one of — what? — five superintendents of achievement. That's a huge statement that goes out to school districts, principals, vice-principals and teachers to say: "This is really important to us. This is important to you." So that's one thing.

Over the last few years we've provided literacy innovation grants. We've given $5 million a year. That has gone right down to school districts and again to teachers to really look at innovative practices that they need to use and that they need to develop to really hone in on the literacy and numeracy.

By all accounts, it has made huge differences and huge shifts, particularly in areas that were vulnerable. In a lot of schools with that relationship with poverty, where there are children at risk, we're seeing some really great results coming out of that.

J. Gorman: If I could also add to that. One of the things that we worked on with teachers in 2006 and the early part of 2007 is a new K-to-7 language arts curriculum. That's one of the things that is really built around the processes of language, if you will — around oral language, on reading and reviewing, on how you write and represent. There are very specific prescribed learning outcomes associated with that.

Again, the teachers helped us develop this, including suggesting what the achievement indicators should be, what the key concepts of learning along those pieces should be. Teachers developed an assessment model for us that we can use in that regard. That's one aspect of it.

We can talk, as well, about first peoples 12, which is a course that has been developed and which we've been working on with FNESC. It's been piloted out throughout the system. It brings more culturally appropriate and aboriginal content into English 12. We're finding that's having an excellent effect, as well, in keeping people engaged on the learning side.

I just want to key in on one aspect of this. The Auditor General's report pointed out the need to improve coordination. We now have the school districts or new boards of education as having that lead, and I want to explore a little bit what that looks like.

Did explicit and specific resources come with that? Will school boards or boards of education get additional resources to take on this function?

E. Gaudet: There's been a number of things that we've done. We have allocated, obviously, staff time as well as a superintendent of literacy and lifelong learning that provides support. We also have a relationship with Literacy Now and Literacy B.C., particularly with Literacy Now around the district literacy plans. They developed a district literacy planning guide for us. They also have recently been provided with some resources that they will then work with the districts to ensure they get the financial resources they need.

It's a coordinated effort with the community literacy planning that Literacy Now has been undertaking

for the last while. They also go out and travel around, as well as the regional literacy coordinators that were funded by the Ministry of Advanced Education. When requested they can go in, and again, we can do a triage to help support those districts that require it.

B. Simpson: My question was specific. School boards or these boards of education now have an accountability to deliver to the ministry as part of their achievement contracts an explicit district literacy plan. Is that correct?

B. Simpson: Annually. That district literacy plan, as I understand it, is supposed to encompass outside of what is their normal scope — that is, into the adult domain, the immigrant population or strategic literacy needs within the community. Is that correct?

J. Gorman: With respect to funding and this particular initiative, what we have done in education, as you know, is really expanded the mandate of boards of education both into early learning and to adult literacy. So they are required to produce aboriginal enhancement agreements. They are required to produce district literacy plans. Those have to be submitted by July 15 of each year.

We have expanded that, and at the same time we have significantly increased the level of funding to boards of education during a period of declining enrolment in order to enable them to take on these responsibilities.

B. Simpson: With respect, that's the political answer. I'm asking a specific question. The specific question is….

This is an additional function given to boards of education that is outside their scope. You pointed out the early learning, and I was going to go there. It's outside of scope for early education and for adult education. That's not the scope of school boards. They have been asked and tasked to deliver district literacy plans that are part of their achievement contracts, which they don't have jurisdictional authority over to deliver. Somehow they now have those responsibilities.

Yes, as Eve points out, there are other disbursed resources out there operating under different masters and different rules. But these boards of education have been given the responsibility for the coordination function that the Auditor General has pointed out.

I'm asking, independent of the political answer of increasing funding and decreasing enrolment: are school districts being given specific resources to deliver on this function? That's my first question.

What we do in education is fund through a block. What we do not do is fund individual initiatives as line items. What we do is make sufficient allocation that reflects the scope of the mandate that districts have been given. We recognize that that scope has expanded, and that's not only why we've left the block intact as students have declined, but why we have increased the level of funding by $122 million within that piece.

That's what we have tried to do. I'm not trying to confuse. What I'm trying to say is that it is recognized as a core function now in legislation of boards of education. So it is within their scope, and they are being funded in order to be able to handle those responsibilities from within the block.

B. Simpson: Thank you. So the answer to my question is no, there won't be additional lifts for this function. It will have to be within the block funding that's transferred to them. The increased mandate will have to be accommodated within the funding that they receive already. That's what I'm understanding.

I understand your point that there are lifts and all that stuff. I'm just saying that this does not come with any explicit additional funds and that it will have to be accommodated within block funding. Correct?

J. Gorman: Yeah. Every school district over the past several years has received increased level of funding each year, commensurate with the expanded mandate.

B. Simpson: Okay. I won't get into a debate over block funding in education and so on. I've got an answer to my question.

Second question is with respect to the accountability mechanism involved in this. Members on this side have already asked questions around early and the adult component. We also have communities in this province that are going through significant transition, a major component of which will be the literacy capabilities of the adult work population to be able to go through that transition.

If a school district is working with its partners in the community and finds out that it's got some needs in order to facilitate that transition, is the school district responsible under this new mandate to make sure resources are available? Do they have that obligation, or are they simply reporting out: "Here's what's in progress. Here's what missing. Here's where resources are needed"? What's the nature of the reporting mechanism that they're responsible for?

J. Gorman: There's a couple of pieces in place. Firstly, there's an educational guarantee that's been put in place by the province, which enables anybody to come back to the K-to-12 system and receive the necessary coursework or upgrading that they can continue to take in order to help enhance their literacy levels. In addition, we provide that both on line and, beginning in September, in person. There is resourcing provided for that for school districts.

Secondly, my understanding is that in the Ministry of Advanced Education, they have made adult basic education a free service, as well, to folks who require that.

B. Simpson: Okay. Just a final avenue, then. Again, with respect to the board of education…. It says here that they'll be reporting out on the monitoring of the recommendations. But if a community has areas where there are insufficient resources, where things are not progressing the way that the community deemed they need to be progressing, who bears the responsibility for that progress and for making sure that resources go in there?

Is that under the mandate of these boards of education, or is it under the ReadNow or…? Where does that sit?

E. Gaudet: It's a collective responsibility of each district. The board of education is required to work collaboratively with their partners and to submit the plan. It is the responsibility of the district, the community planning table writ large, to make sure that they are meeting the goals they set in their plan.

For example, if it's a community like you described, where they have workforce issues in adult, then that would be a target they would set. It would be their requirement to meet that target.

There's a number of funding streams that they can apply for. There is community adult literacy funding out of the Ministry of Advanced Education. There is aboriginal funding from there as well, and there are programs starting related to the labour market agreement. So there are a number of things they can do.

The board of education, the regional literacy coordinator and, of course, those of us at the provincial level can provide them with that kind of information to source out that kind of funding.

J. Yap: Thank you to the Auditor General and the ministry for the presentations.

A couple of questions. The recommendation of coordination as one of the key recommendations…. What best practices are out there in the world of literacy? I'm thinking: how are other jurisdictions handling this? From the ministry's perspective and the Auditor General's perspective, when you were doing this review, and the ministry, in your work…. How do we compare in bringing in the types of processes to improve in this area?

E. Gaudet: We're breaking new ground. B.C. is absolutely breaking new ground. We have borrowed ideas through the learning communities, learning cities models that have come out of Great Britain, New Zealand and such. But we are definitely, in terms of Canada, breaking new ground on this approach.

When we had our Council of Ministers of Education interactive literacy forum that was in nine sites across the country last month, we chose…. Community as the foundation was basically our theme. Community is where it works. What was fascinating about that is that no other jurisdiction even remotely looks at the approach we take.

We look at coordination at a provincial level. We look at it at a regional. We look it at a community level, at a district level. What's really interesting about that is that in the past two years at a provincial level, we are definitely one of the first initiatives that has come out of — certainly, with the five great goals or any of the key cross-government initiatives…. We've really made headway in working with our partner ministries.

It's been a fascinating experience to work collaboratively and coordinate in a way that…. No one ministry owns this file. Minister Bond was given leadership around it, but it actually could sit in any ministry. It's one that affects all ministries because it is a foundation.

So we've made huge headway in terms of collaborating — and that is really the big word, collaborating — with our other ministries. We do the same at the pan-Canadian level through the Council of Ministers of Education, as B.C. has the lead on the literacy file. We've made huge strides on a literacy action plan at that level.

We have certainly done the same thing at the community level in terms of coordination through the Legacies 2010, Literacy Now and community planning that has gone on over the last four years.

I mean, it's unprecedented in any jurisdiction that over 200 communities have come together, separately, to create community literacy plans, and to identify and use a community development model with literacy at the centre of it.

What we're starting to see is huge spin-out around sustainable communities coming out of that — food safety…. All kinds of things are happening — bringing libraries together, bringing anybody that has anything to do with literacy together to coordinate at the community level, at the regional levels with the colleges doing the same thing, certainly at the provincial and again at the pan-Canadian levels.

No other jurisdiction has taken this approach. That's what you need to create a culture of learning and a cultural shift.

J. Yap: Shifting gears a bit, I'm interested in the methodology that IALSS uses in measuring…. This survey that they do — is it a direct survey? Do they do a sampling of people, a cross-section, and test their literacy? How is that done?

E. Gaudet: The international adult literacy and skills survey is a very expensive and very in-depth survey. I say expensive because that indicates it has to be done on a one-to-one-basis. There is a large sample that is done. All jurisdictions are involved with it. It is done through the OECD and in conjunction with HRSDC, who represent all of us on its behalf.

There are subsamplings of certain populations. We are going to, on the next one, ensure that we do some of that, because we need more information on our immigrant populations and aboriginal populations. We did do some subsampling on the immigrants, so we have a pretty good profile on that.

It's one that I believe takes 90 minutes for somebody to work on with another person, and it's done in person.

The other thing I want to mention that we're working on, which is also going to be really interesting, is a microsimulation model in B.C. Again, no other jurisdiction yet is taking it. We're the first.

You take stats, B.C. stats, and you profile and put in the IALSS information, the profile you have from that. Then you look at your projections of populations and your characteristics. Then you can begin to simulate in out-years. So we can look up to 2031. Given what our population looks like now, given this and given that, how are we going to be looking in out-years? That helps to look at how we need to target our resources.

J. Yap: If I may, your answer there made me think of another question. As the demographics shift in the coming years — we know we have a huge shift happening, moving to a more knowledge-based economy in North America and the world — how do those numbers look?

I'm assuming that as more and more people, the baby boomer generation, start to retire, there would be an interesting shift in the levels of knowledge and literacy required. What are those projections showing?

E. Gaudet: I can't tell you specifically because we don't have the final…. They're working on it over the summer. So I won't be able to tell you the specifics on that until January.

But we do know that with the demographic shift and the fact that there's going to continue to be a large flow-in of immigrants, we do need to continue to target that area.

The other interesting thing, when you talk about how we stack up against other jurisdictions in what we're doing, that I've learned in recent meetings with my colleagues in other jurisdictions is that many of them don't look at the immigrants and English as a second language as a literacy issue. They don't combine it.

That's another area that we have said: "You know what? It is part of the literacy file." So when we work with our colleagues at Ministry of Attorney General in the immigrant and settlement services area, a lot of the funding that they were given last year and again this year — because they have a federal-provincial agreement — has actually been moved into ESL and into literacy with the immigrant sector.

Again, that's an area that is going to continue to grow, but we know we have to target for that specific population.

R. Fleming (Chair): Members, now, with Mr. Sultan, there are four people who would like to ask questions, and we have seven minutes until the Committee of Supply will need this room.

If I could ask for shorter questions, but shorter answers as well. If I could indulge the witnesses to that, so that we can get everybody to ask their questions.

R. Hawes: My question is actually pretty easy, I think. I visited the StrongStart centre where I live, and I don't know if it's typical or if others are exactly the same. There are quite a number of immigrant families there. I noticed that the moms come, and they don't speak English. The early childhood educators are actually working with the moms, too, to teach them how to read so that they can read to their kids.

Is that just an exceptional early childhood educator, or is this typical? Is this part of what that program…?

E. Gaudet: I think initially, when StrongStarts were started, the focus was on the child, but now that they've been in practice…. You can't have one without the other. The fact is that a parent or caregiver is required to be there with the child. If the parent has challenges with reading and even with their oral language, because that is a pre-literacy skill, you can't separate them out.

I think what we're finding and what is continuing to grow and what we're continuing to support is exactly what you're talking about. It is truly family literacy where you need to support the parent, depending on where they are at on the continuum, as well as the child. If you don't support the parent, the child will leave. They'll go home to a context where all of the work and philosophy brought into the StrongStart doesn't carry over into the home. That's what they're aiming to do with StrongStart centres.

J. McIntyre (Deputy Chair): Actually, I have a question of the Auditor General's office. I'll switch gears here.

As usual, when we're privy to these hearings and audits, I always appreciate hearing from the Auditor General's office, especially because I think in this case the audit appeared to be done quite early on in the implementation phase of this program, sort of a few months into it.

I understand from the presentation that you're into year 2. What I've heard seems, especially since you targeted your presentation to the recommendations and the progress you've made….

I guess I'd just like to hear from the Auditor General's office. What we're hearing today and what the answers have told us — is that in line with the direction that you were asking the ministries to go in, in terms of reaching some of these goals?

The initial goal, the great goal, was established back in, I think, 2004. So by the time we came along, quite a bit of time had gone by. We thought there was enough time gone by to justify looking at the progress.

Having said that, certainly I'm satisfied that the ministry is taking our recommendations seriously. We've heard some of the things that are being planned today.

I also think the discussion that members have had today really confirms that because of the many government and non-government agencies involved in developing promoting literacy and because of the potentially fragmented funding, the issue of coordination is absolutely essential if there is to be progress. We've indicated that we saw some progress, and we've heard perhaps some further progress since that time.

It also confirms that it's critical that there be good information about the need so that the resources available are focused in the most important areas — again, confirmation that it's essential to have good information about progress so that adjustments can be made as we go along. As you know, we'll be organizing a follow-up to our recommendations in due course.

But as I say, I'm satisfied that the ministry is taking the recommendations seriously.

J. McIntyre (Deputy Chair): Good. I think that's always important. Thank you very much.

J. Rustad: I'm just wondering whether or not at this time we should entertain a motion or actually have another speaker.

R. Fleming (Chair): I think we will in a few moments. But if you have a question for the time being….

R. Sultan: Each year the federal government admits hundreds of thousands of people into this country, and other tens of thousands seem to arrive and stay without official sanction. I appreciate that the Auditor General is here to discuss provincial programs and not federal programs, but it's clear that the federal government, through settlement moneys, takes some responsibility for helping these people fit in.

We also know that the economic success of the recently arrived immigrants is plummeting compared to the success rates of the past, which is something to be seriously concerned about. So my question is: observing the diplomatic niceties, could you give a report card on federal government efforts in this area?

E. Price: I certainly wouldn't be in a position to do that right now. As the member may be aware, our office has carried out a number of audits concurrently with the federal Auditor General. One came out, of course, last week on the aboriginal child care programs.

I think that's an area that we will further develop in the future, for the reasons that you just articulated — that there are many areas where there is federal jurisdiction and provincial jurisdiction. I can't make any commitment right now as to whether that's a specific area we might look at in the future. I'm obviously not in a position to make any comment right now.

R. Fleming (Chair): Okay. Members, I will suggest a motion — and then maybe ask somebody to move it — that would read….

R. Fleming (Chair): If I could just continue — and then maybe this is exactly identical, Member.

The motion would be that the Public Accounts Committee endorses the recommendations of the Auditor General. It is satisfied with the progress being made by the Ministry of Education and recommends no further action be taken at this time.

I think we've heard from the Auditor General this morning that his office intends to conduct a follow-up report in short order, building on the findings in this report.

R. Fleming (Chair): I would like to thank all of our witnesses this morning for being here and our committee members for their questions and the discussion generated. I would ask for a motion to adjourn.

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