2016 Legislative Session: Fifth Session, 40th Parliament

This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.

DEBATES OF THE
LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(HANSARD)

COMMITTEE A BLUES

WEDNESDay, MARCH 16, 2016

Afternoon Sitting

PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
SMALL BUSINESS AND
RED TAPE REDUCTION

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); G. Kyllo in the chair.

The committee met at 2:52 p.m.

On Vote 40: ministry operations, $3,862,000 (continued).

Hon. C. Oakes: I would like to take just a brief moment to introduce the team that we have here today. It's always important to know the hard-working individuals that ensure that our ministries are so incredibly well run.

I would like to first start by introducing Tim McEwan, who is the deputy minister; Christine Little, the assistant deputy minister of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction; Jackie Hunter, the executive director of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction; and Tracy Campbell, the acting assistant deputy minister of the management services branch.

As Minister of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction and Minister Responsible for the Liquor Distribution Branch, one of my key areas of focus is supporting and promoting our vibrant small businesses that we have in British Columbia. This year we've provided continued support for small businesses through programs such as the mobile business licence and our partnership with both the federal government and local governments on resources for business owners, such as BizPaL.

We also celebrated our first annual Red Tape Reduction Day earlier this month, a day in recognition of this government's commitment to improving access to services for British Columbians across this province and getting rid of unnecessary regulations so that small businesses can focus on what they do best: creating jobs and helping grow the B.C. economy.

I look forward to this opportunity to have dialogue on how we continue to support small businesses. With that, I welcome the member opposite.

[1455]

J. Shin: I have my set of notes here for the estimates that we have. I must say this before I begin. The first sentence is: "The minister and I...." What I mean by that is that it's my pleasure to be able to be the shadow critic for this particular file. It's a very important one. I feel as though we have a very good dialogue between the minister's office and myself. That's something that I definitely appreciate, and I want to put that on the record.

I believe that these estimates will be not just an opportunity for myself to raise questions and to hold the government to account for their mandate but, also, a chance for me to advocate on behalf of the many stakeholders and individuals that I've had a chance to connect with and, of course, use this platform as a way to share ideas together in a very candid manner. I think the minister would welcome that, obviously.

Beyond being just the critic for this particular file, I hope to be a good partner, a good complement to the ministry's work, so that we can improve the conditions for our entrepreneurs of British Columbia.

On that note, what I would like to start off with…. Please, I would appreciate the minister's patience. I did try to organize this into themes, so that we can focus on one area before moving on to another, but I've also had good last-minute input that came in, so we might end up going a little bit zigzag into different areas.

With that note, I would like to turn the minister's attention to the service plan for the ministry — reviewing their goals for the current fiscal year. In goal 1, the ministry outlines a number of the ministry-led initiatives and possibly funded…. I've noticed Small Business B.C., the Futurpreneur, the mobile business licence program, BizPaL, the small business awareness strategy, as well as the LNG–Buy B.C. program that the minister also mentioned in her introduction.

On that, specifically on Small Business B.C…. This is an organization that I had the privilege of connecting with and actually working with, on a few of the programs and events that they have launched. Their performance indicators are quite astonishing. Nearly 110,000 entrepreneurs self-identify as users of the Small Business B.C. products, which is 27 percent of all small businesses in B.C. And over, I believe, the last four years, their performance indicators have grown quite appreciably.

With that, I'm curious if the minister can comment on the budget as far as funding and contractual obligations that are tied to Small Business B.C. and, given the demand — I understand that Small Business B.C. also has self-generated revenue — if she foresees any funding increases or decreases in this particular fiscal year.

Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite for the question.

[1500]

I thought it was very relevant — perhaps for us as well — to highlight some of the great work that Small Business B.C. is doing. In 2014-2015, Small Business B.C. did increase its number of client interactions by 20 percent, to 982,529 clients, and expects to serve at least over one million clients, a 21 percent increase over last year. And a 10 percent increase in walk-in clients is anticipated.

It goes to demonstrate the strength of small business in British Columbia and the vibrancy and the great work that they're doing. I will say that we have a three-year contract with Small Business B.C., also in partnership with the federal government. We are in the final year of that contract.

Currently we fund Small Business B.C. through $686,000. The federal component of that is $1 million, and the self-generated funds that Small Business B.C. generates, $640,000. So it is a really good investment. They are able to match and to find funds as well.

I will also note, if I may, that I had the opportunity to talk with the federal minister last week and to talk about Small Business B.C. and the great work that they're doing. Maybe it's important, also, on the record just to perhaps let people know that…. To encourage people, if you're looking at starting a small business or you're an entrepreneur or you're an existing small business and you're just looking for a little bit of support, we strongly encourage people to check out the website. They've got lots of different opportunities to help.

They also do outreach activities across the province. They attended and presented at 135 events to 13,888 attendees over this last year. A 61 percent increase in 2014-15 over the previous year. Metrics were drawn from the 2014-2015 annual report and their quarterly reports, as well as their performance indicators.

J. Shin: That would echo the same numbers that I have in my notes as well, which is one of the reasons why I wanted to stand and talk in strong advocacy for the work that they do, as well as the kind of support that small businesses in B.C. deserve.

For that, I just want to draw the minister's attention to comparing it to the LNG industry, for example. According to the Small Business Profile 2015 compiled by the ministry, there is an estimate of more than one million people that work in small business in B.C., accounting for 54 percent of the private sector employment in the province and 44 percent of the total jobs. In comparison, in the same year, oil and gas extraction accounted for 6,200 jobs in B.C. Keep in mind, this was before the major industry downturn in the last half of 2015.

What that means is that compared to the jobs that are provided by the small businesses, the oil and gas extraction industry accounts for, at most, about 50,000 jobs in B.C., which is less than 5 percent. On the GDP side, the small business sector accounts for 33 percent of the provincial GDP, which is $78 billion. GDP for oil and gas extraction was $7.2 billion.

Again, the reason that I'm highlighting these differences is because there is an obvious government priority for supporting the LNG investments. But at the same time, when you look at the raw numbers for GDP as well as the number of jobs that are created by small business, I believe that the Small Business Ministry is where we can see more government investment to make sure that we support the entrepreneurs, because the numbers are pretty self-explanatory.

The minister has done a great job of mentioning the performance indicators and the growth of services that Small Business B.C. has shown over the last few years. So I won't go more into that. But again, I just want to put on the record that we would love to see more support for the great advocacy and education work that they do.

On that note, while I was able to find the funds allocated to Small Business B.C., I couldn't quite get the breakdown as far as the ministry dollars go for other programs that the ministry is engaged with. If the minister can please let us know some of the numbers, and if there were any decreases or increases for the current service year for Futurpreneur, the mobile business licence program, and BizPaL. I understand that some of the other mandates in goal 1 of the strategic plan are more about conversations with other ministries that may not come with dollars attached. For any other sort of funded programs, if the minister can please let us know.

[1505]

Hon. C. Oakes: I think it's important to note that this is a relatively small budget for our ministry. We have $3.85 million. That is both the Small Business budget and the Red Tape Reduction budget as well.

For that, BizPaL, we do support. It's part of our federal contract. Our contribution to that is $77,000. The mobile business component, and most of that is around staffing support, is $190,000.

The member opposite asked if there's new funding that we were able to find for this year. One of the programs that I'm really proud to support is Futurpreneur, because one of the things…. When I took over as minister, having reviewed all of the reports from the Small Business Roundtable for the last ten years, two priorities were very consistent — how to make sure that we're supporting young entrepreneurs and making sure, within the school system, that we are looking at financial literacy, entrepreneurship.

I got introduced to Futurpreneur, and they are doing a fantastic job right across the country. I met a lot of the new young entrepreneurs and the ideas that they're bringing forward and the types of businesses that they're generating. I think it's a really strong investment opportunity. We are reviewing the success of that, and we'll be looking at how we can possibly look at future funding for this.

One of our jobs in our ministry, too, is to work closely with other ministries, because I think what is important to know is that our small businesses interact with almost every ministry that we have.

When the member opposite talked about the oil and gas sector, I think it's really important that, when you look at our small business numbers for British Columbia, oil and gas small businesses are a significant part of that — if you look at your service, your supply, the boots on the ground.

In many respects, why I think we're a good complement is that, having lived in northern British Columbia and having maybe a more rural aspect of small business, I understand the boots on the ground — whether it's a welder, whether it's a truck shop or what that has — and the tremendous amount of what that provides to our economy. It absolutely drives the economy.

[1510]

For the member opposite, your experience of having owned a small business with your family in an urban setting — I think it's a good complement for us to understand that.

But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the importance of oil and gas and the small businesses that are still working up in that sector. One of the critical things, especially in resource-based communities, is the importance for us to look at how we diversify our businesses.

What I could say to the member opposite: we are looking, as a ministry, to ensure that we are looking at programs, making sure we're engaging stakeholders in what kind of support we can be doing to help small businesses diversify.

Many of our communities are single industry or limited industries. How can you ensure that you're supporting and growing that? Maybe a little bit later on we might talk about the tech sector and what we're seeing around small business. But there are lots of opportunities there.

I appreciate the member opposite being such a strong advocate for small business and being an advocate for increased budgets. You won't get an objection from us here on this side, but I thank the member for her question.

J. Shin: Actually, the minister raises a really good point. There seem to be multiple ministries involved when it comes to advocacy for small businesses.

I had a chance to review the 2014-15 public accounts, their detailed schedule of payments — specifically, large amounts of it from the Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training Ministry and the kinds of moneys that were transferred to business organizations that have significant business interests.

I'll just mention a few examples here. Small Business was a department within a larger ministry previously, before this became a ministry on its own.

But on that, we noticed that there were significant transfers of funds. For example, the Nelson and District Chamber of Commerce received $154,065. That's from the Social Development Ministry.

The same thing with the West Shore Chamber of Commerce, receiving $81,000 from the Jobs and Tourism Ministry. Likely and District Chamber of Commerce received $50,000.

The B.C. Chamber of Commerce seems to be the biggest recipient for Jobs and Tourism Ministry funds, which was quite a bit over $1 million — 1.173-some-million dollars.

Given that there are 107 chamber members of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, I wasn't clear where the parameters are set as to why some chambers get specific funds allocated specifically for them, as opposed to some chambers…. It looks as though they get it through applying to the B.C. Chamber of Commerce from the lump sum that they receive from the government.

If the minister can please comment on what her ministry's involvement is with that. It still remains a little bit unclear as to why it's coming from the Social Development Ministry and why it's coming from Jobs and Tourism. And does the Small Business Ministry itself have any plans in the future as far as how these funds are disbursed?

 [1515]

Hon. C. Oakes: To the member opposite: thank you very much for your questions around chambers of commerce. I think it's probably no surprise that, having my history, I'm a significant…. I know the value of what chambers do across British Columbia.

I think it's important, perhaps, just to step back a little bit. One of the strengths of chambers of commerce or boards of trade in communities is that — the member listed a couple of communities — they're often that economic development group in a community. It's not just on economic development. They do so many things.

I digress a little bit. When you look at the Quesnel Chamber of Commerce, it started in 1910. It really was founded at a time when it did the work that existed before even local government came along. My favourite story is: the Quesnel Chamber of Commerce stocked fish in Dragon Lake. Now Dragon Lake is a world-class fishing destination. They also were the ones responsible for ensuring that sidewalks and libraries and fire were taken care of in the early years.

You see that evolution of chambers of commerce. It's distinct in every single community. You go to Castlegar and you see the Sculpturewalk. You go up to Prince Rupert and you see the great work that the chamber of commerce is doing there. I think chambers of commerce respond to activity that's happening in their current environment in a community. It evolves, and it changes.

For example…. Well, I can't speak to the exact specifics. I'd be happy to get back to the member opposite on exactly what the specific amounts were for the programs that the member listed. I'd be happy to do that. We'll engage with our other ministries. But I can imagine that probably on…. We should never guess, I know, especially in estimates.

But for example, within Social Innovation, sometimes there are job creation partnership programs. There are different programs. Chambers of commerce can be the key driver in a community to make sure that there is training that happens in a community. If no one else is doing that, they become kind of that contract person in the community.

I can speak closely to the Likely Chamber of Commerce. That was as a response of Mount Polley and ensuring that, on a tourism perspective…. There was work that was required again to ensure that we were supporting Likely with getting a positive tourism message. In our region, in the Cariboo region, there are 4,000 lakes just around the Quesnel Lake area. Something happens that's very negative, and it can affect tourism. So to get positive messages out that there are a lots of tourism opportunities….

The B.C. Chamber of Commerce — again, I can't speak to the specifics of this one, but I do know that we partnered in the past with, for example, the microbusiness program. It was a program that was designed to ensure that if you were a small business, and maybe there was customer service training that was required or e-commerce….

I know that a lot of our small businesses…. We've heard, and I'm sure the member opposite has also heard, that our small businesses want to get engaged in e-commerce. They want to sell into that channel. But they struggle like many of us — technology is not probably my strongest suit — to do training to help support their business. That's the type of work that's being done.

Chambers of commerce — again, every single chamber is independent, and they look at what their community needs. They look at the list of programs that the government offers, and then they apply to those organizations.

The final question, I think, is: what is our role with trying to package, I guess, what a whole bunch of ministries may have as programs? We are working closely in the service plan on how we can do better stakeholder outreach. Like the member opposite, we know how important it is that we have a great stakeholder partnership, that we're able to ensure that our partners who support small businesses know what programs are.

[1520]

We're looking at new ways on how we can engage that, and we're very open. If the member opposite has ideas, we'd love to hear that and see how we can help implement them.

J. Shin: One of the advantages of having a great working relationship with the minister is that often, I think, this is way friendlier than people anticipate. With that said, thank you for the answer.

The minister, again, raises a good point. We've had a chance to discuss this a little bit more. Can the minister please speak on how we can ensure that the representation from multiple different communities are being heard?

One of the things that I raise time and time again is that…. Often, when we talk about small business under the current classification, it's a business anywhere from owner-operator to a medium-sized enterprise almost — with 40 employees, even. They are classified as a small business. Obviously, it's the bigger operations that have the luxury of time and also the financial means to be able to hire maybe a lobbyist to participate in public consultations or to voice their concerns and even participate in the Small Business Roundtable, for example.

A lot of the businesses — and the minister knows as well…. Eighty-five percent of the businesses are microbusinesses with less than five employees. A lot of the time, when we talk about small business, that's the kind of picture that I get in my mind — kind of like my momma and poppa's ice cream store, where, really, when we have four people working, it's probably four people from the family, right? How do we ensure that those voices are heard?

On that note, I had the chance to connect with both Small Business B.C. as well as CFIB and other stakeholders that the ministry works with. It continues to be a problem. It's a challenge that I think our stakeholders are well aware of.

One of the things that I notice is that, despite the fact that there's a clear lack of representation — whether it's regionally or by the kind of businesses that we're talking about within the small business framework…. When I look at the boards, when I look at the current board of directors for Small Business B.C., as well as the ministry staff and also the Small Business Roundtable chairs and the members, it's quite stark that there is almost zero, I think, ethnic representation, for example.

The regional representation seems to be a bit of a hit-and-miss. I know there are some vacancies. I was hoping, if the minister can please speak a little bit on some of the ministry's efforts in making sure that we continue to improve the representation, which we need in order to make sure that the small business advocacy is not being done by solely one group of people but that we try to catch the concerns from as broad of a population as we can.

[1525]

Hon. C. Oakes: We were just discussing the fact that we're eight months in into this ministry and, you know, time just flies. It has been a true privilege to be in this ministry.

I'll respond, I guess, to the two questions. Small Business B.C. — we have one appointed member that we have any ability to put on that board. But I would like to talk about the Small Business Roundtable. The round table really is the voice into government of small businesses. I think it's important to note.

The vice-chair of the round table is Cybele Negris, CEO and co-founder of Webnames, and she's from Vancouver. So you're right. We're looking at diversity and: what does that look like?

As we go down…. Sue Adams from Whistler is a microbusiness. Angie Barnard, the founder of TripTide Canada, from Nanaimo, is a microbusiness. John Cameron, the CEO of Rock Solid Business Coaching, from Langley, is a microbusiness. Jill Doucette, owner of Synergy Enterprises, is from Victoria and also a microbusiness. Jon Garson, president and CEO of the British Columbia Chamber of Commerce from Vancouver, an association.

Ingrid Hope, owner and president of Hall Printing, from Trail and Nelson, is a microbusiness. Sam Howard is a senior policy analyst from the CFIB, so from Vancouver, an association. Ashley Ramsay is founder and CEO of Yeti Farm Creative, and she is a microbusiness. She is from Kelowna. Bob Redden is from Prince George. He is the partner and president of Environmental Dynamics and fits into probably more the medium-sized business.

Randy Richmond from Nelson, vice-president and partner of Spearhead. Again, probably more the small to medium. Chief Ellis Ross, the chief councillor from the Haisla First Nation from the Kitimat village, sits on the Small Business Roundtable and is very important, as well, because he is the also the chair of the aboriginal business council, so it's great to have that synergy on this board.

Mark Startup, vice-president of MyStore, Retail Council of Canada in Vancouver. Ian Tostenson, the president and CEO of the British Columbia Restaurant and Food Services Association, is from Vancouver. M.J. Whitemarsh, CEO of Whitemarsh Enterprises from Sooke, is a microbusiness. Chief Judy Wilson, chief of the Neskonlith Indian Band in Chase.

We are working towards diversity. I absolutely take the member's comment that we need to look at what representation looks like and making sure that we strike that balance. Like I said, we're eight months into the ministry, but you have my commitment, absolutely, that we'll continue to look at the round table, make sure that we refine it, continue to ensure that we are representing our small businesses from all across British Columbia.

I know the member opposite has put many kilometres on having travelled the province of British Columbia and meeting with small businesses. I know that she will appreciate the list of where we have our members from who speak directly and advocate for their communities, for their regions, for their sectors, to the round table.

J. Shin: Thanks to the minister for her answer. While we are on this topic, I will just re-emphasize the point that not only regional but types of businesses be represented in these quite exclusive opportunities for small businesses to voice their concerns. We want to make sure that we continue to improve the representation.

I just want to put on the record that minority representation is something that I feel very passionate about. That's clearly lacking all across the board, whether within the ministry staff as well as the boards that we are talking about.

The reason is, just as I had a lightbulb moment when the minister talked about her experience as a rural MLA in a rural constituency about the boots on the ground and what it means for a smaller town for resource sector industry and how that feeds into the local economy, in the same light, I believe that in many ways for immigrant-owned small businesses, the only way they can be truly advocated for is that they have representation on these boards that are very important.

[1530]

It's one thing for us to have board members that advocate on small business, but it's another to have a diversified opinion who is going to fight for…. Why don't we have translated materials already? That should be done already, right?

How about some of the exotic foods and how long it has taken for different health authorities to be sensitive to different fermentation processes? It looks like the food is rotting but not really. It's actually an authentic way to process and prepare food, for example. It's no different than cheese-making. When it comes to some other exotic Korean cuisine or what have you, those continue to raise problems when you come to food inspection processes and whatnot.

These are, I think, culturally specific and sensitive areas. With all good intentions from the ministry and all the stakeholders involved, if we don't have the fair representation, the time that it takes for the changes that we need to see is far slower. I just want to leave it at that — that in the coming years, whenever there's an opportunity for the ministry to appoint or influence how the boards are made up, that there is a strong push and advocacy for representation.

This is a province of 1.4 million immigrants, and every year we welcome 42,000 newcomers. A lot of these immigrants, with their foreign credentials often unrecognized or as part of their immigration condition to earn their citizenship, end up starting a small business, just like my family has. So make sure that we continue to prioritize all efforts from the government to make sure that these immigrants that we welcome to British Columbia can hit the ground running as opposed to getting held back by English barriers that are very real.

[S. Sullivan in the chair.]

I think it's a very worthwhile investment from the government to help out with language assistance, whether it's with translated materials or culturally sensitive policies or better representation and outreach. All of these are ways that I think will definitely benefit the economy of our province, as opposed to seeing the same immigrants that could have been very quickly on their feet take much longer to get settled and thrive in this province.

On that note, I don't think.... I was making a memo as the minister was speaking. I just want to get clarification going back to goal 1. Am I hearing this right? Besides Small Business B.C. and some small amount of funds that are allocated for Futurpreneur as well as the funds that the minister has already clarified for the mobile business licence and BizPaL, are there no other contractual grants or funds that are made to any sort of other stakeholders and organizations, besides the ones that we've already talked about?

[1535]

Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite for the question. I would like to go back a little bit and, again, make the commitment to the member opposite about minority representation. I know that the member opposite has been a very strong advocate. Thank you for regularly reminding and being such a strong advocate. It's important.

Here's what I can tell you. I had the conversation with the federal minister on exactly this topic and what the supports are and how we can look at where the gaps are. I might read out what some of the supports are. Again, they're not necessarily in our ministry. That's why sometimes I think things don't get captured.

I'd like to go through, though, a few of them, because if there's something we've missed, or if there is some way…. We've also had this conversation before — that sometimes, as a government, we'll put out a publication. Is it easy to read? Is it easy, if you're an immigrant and English is not your first language? Is the type of material that we're putting out really in a clear enough form that makes it accessible or easy to understand? That's a lot of the work that we've been trying to look at and put laser focus on, the red-tape-reduction piece, because I think that service-understanding piece is critically important.

The small business branch does publish the Starting a Small Business guide and an import-export guide in five languages: English, traditional Chinese, simplified Chinese, Korean and Punjabi. Translation services are, typically, updated every two to three years, but I encourage the member opposite — and we can get copies for the member — that if there is something that we need to look at within them, please let us know.

Our premier service delivery provider, Small Business B.C., also translates their brochures in both English and French. As well, the staff speak a number of different languages, so if somebody calls in, there's a variety of languages that they can support.

We also started a new program this past year — and it's in partnership with a couple of different ministries — on the immigration business owners. It's called WelcomeBC and SUCCESS. WelcomeBC can help you find information, tools and resources you need as an immigrant, and it can also provide links to useful resources for community leaders and service providers, as new members of their community. WelcomeBC is currently under the mandate of the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training.

In addition to the welcomebc.ca website, a number of the features and tools provide up-to-date information. They have a cost-of-living calculator, a newcomer's guide and welcome to B.C. in your language, which has 14 different languages. The B.C. newcomer's guide comes in 14 different languages, but there are also 26 local newcomer's guides.

SUCCESS is a non-profit charitable service delivery organization which offers multilingual translation and interpretation services in over 12 languages to individual clients and public service agencies, including small claims court, family court, B.C. Housing, ICBC, legal services agencies and school boards. They also have marketing and promotional materials around business plans, proposals, brochures and pamphlets. Small Business B.C. and SUCCESS provide marketing support and referrals to their service offerings.

It was a good reminder for us to go back, though, and look at these publications. I encourage, like I said, the member opposite, to please…. If you could do the same, and if there's something that we need to improve, we would like to hear that.

[1540]

We also have a commitment to go out and do regional consultations. I also take the member's point that often…. I can assure you that the members that are represented here across the province come from their communities, saying, "This person is somebody that we really feel reflects our small business community," but I felt it was really important to get out into communities to understand exactly what's going on.

We started our first consultation. We did do a test in the Lower Mainland. We were to train everyone on how these consultations will roll out, and over the next course of this year, we will be going out to communities to listen directly to small businesses.

Again, I would reach out to the member if, within the immigrant or ethnic community, there are ways or tips or tools that you would like to share on that, because I think you raised, again, valid, culturally specific questions. We will make sure that we take that back to our ministry.

J. Shin: The good work — it just never stops, right? There is always more to be done and more we can do. While I certainly appreciate that, I think Canada is probably one of the top leading countries in the world that pays special attention to the different challenges of immigrants that we attract into the country.

It's not to undermine the great work that has been done, but my job, of course, is to continue to press on the government to ask for more. I do understand some of the main documents and guidelines are available, like the minister has mentioned, in five most commonly spoken languages, but we are a province where 200 languages are spoken. There are many times that….

Another file that I have is that I'm the deputy critic for Multiculturalism, and, from my experience working on that file, I found myself, again, very naturally becoming an advocate for the minor minorities — very small populations, whether it's the Ethiopians or the Bosnians and so on and so forth — where their populations are not as significant as, say, the Chinese community or the South Asian community.

Nonetheless, they're individuals, all the same, that deserve support. I will continue to ask the government to be cognizant of just how diverse our province is. It does go beyond the five languages that we most commonly cater to.

On that note, given that this ministry is quite interesting, in the sense that the ministry budget is very small…. With that, the number of funds that are being passed on to other organizations — I understand that it's fairly limited, and we've identified a handful. But I also understand that the ministry does work with other stakeholders. Again, my interest here is to make sure that….

It's very easy, I think, for anybody to go back to our same group of friends and talk to them and get ideas: how are we doing? But are there active pursuits for the ministry to go beyond the usual universe of stakeholders that they dialogue with?

I understand that the ministry, of course, is in close communication with Small Business B.C., CFIB and so on and so forth, and I would imagine, the chambers of commerce, as well as the other ministries in the government. But this is something that I've heard from stakeholders, and I wanted to see if the ministry has been, that I'm not aware of, or if the ministry plans to engage with some other business advocates. That includes, again, going back to the minority groups.

A lot of the minority communities have a very robust network, and it's not uncommon for, say, even the Korean-Canadian community…. There are over 200 organizations in that Korean community alone. And almost all of the minority communities have a business leg — the Chinese Women Business Association, for example, and the Taiwan Chamber of Commerce. This is right here in B.C.

[1545]

I was hoping to hear from the minister if the ministry is aware and if there are any active efforts to also invite them into some of the round-table conversations or public consultations. Even for red-tape feedbacks — were those organizations invited and included?

I also wanted to highlight the great work that local business improvement associations do. I understand that the system, municipally, sort of mandated groups in multiple communities. Nonetheless, they service many local small commercial strips and a group of business owners that, I think, speak to the same population that the ministry plans to serve.

If the minister can please let us know what the stakeholder universe looks like for the ministry, beyond that which is quite obvious from the conversations that we had.

Hon. C. Oakes: I'll answer the question I should have answered before. My apologies.

Our budget is $3.85 million. We have 20 FTEs within the ministry, and that goes to support the mobile business licence, the regulatory team as well as.... Of course, the contracts we have are with the federal government on BizPaL and Small Business B.C.

We do have about $35,000 that goes towards a small business round table, and that's for travel costs. We wanted to make sure that we were hearing from small businesses from across British Columbia. There is a cost when you have to fly from Kitimat or from Nelson. So that's where that cost is there.

To the question around invitations and public consultations. We can always do a better job. I think the challenge is.... When you look at a community, it's such a diverse group of individuals. We want to do better. I would welcome working with the member opposite if there are stakeholders that you feel should be engaged in this. It is open to everyone. It's trying to figure out how we do that engagement.

I can say, on the red-tape-reduction consultations that we did do, that was very broad-based, and it was open to everyone. We did a lot of work on social media. That was a clear focus. We're trying to figure out, with new technology and new generations of small business: how do you filter information out into communities and invite that feedback?

I'm pleased with the type of feedback that we did get from communities through that process, but we do need to look at how we broaden stakeholder engagement on the small business front and welcome any ideas or suggestions that you may have.

[1550]

J. Shin: I have a list for the minister. It's a list of all the multicultural stakeholders with a special business interest. It will be very important for not just the ministry announcements that go out. It's one thing for us to send out announcements. But are those falling on the ears we intend them for? Always, I think, if you can, streamline and add on to government communications to make sure that the news reaches people.

On that note, even last session, the Franchises Act.... Are we able to make sure that there is awareness in the new small business owners? Do all of our stakeholders that greet some of the new entrepreneurs who are about to enter franchise businesses know about the latest legislation? So on and so forth.

I'll definitely share with the ministry some of the contacts that I have.

On that note, just to expand a little bit more, not just the business stakeholders in the community that the ministry can engage with…. I also do want to ask the minister a little bit about…. I understand that the minister is in constant communication with other ministries for small businesses.

One of the programs that I quite often hear from business owners, at least the ones that have been in operation for quite some time…. On occasion, they've asked me: "What happened with the work study program? Are there provincial government programs where students can volunteer and get part of their wage subsidized, for example?" These are some of the pilot programs that may have come and gone in the past, by previous governments, but it's nonetheless something that I quite often hear.

If the minister can please comment on any conversation that you may or may not be having provincially. I understand that there is a federal part to that as well and thank you for the advocacy with the federal minister. On that note, with Advanced Education and the Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training ministries, to see if any of these youth or work study programs, where it clearly benefits youth in training, our students looking for jobs.... As well, small business owners can benefit from training some of our up-and-coming labour force and, at the same time, get the benefit from the government for the important work that they do.

[1555]

Hon. C. Oakes: I would like to make a minor clarification. I referred to the budget as 3.85. It's actually 3.862 million. The small business portion is 3.096 million. The other piece is the red-tape-reduction, the regulation piece.

To the question around the work study, the provincial youth and training, I identified that as a gap that we currently have as far as pulling information together. I agree that these types of programs…. I think we have both participated in these kind of programs in the past. As you know, young individuals found them incredibly rewarding. I do know that the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training is doing a lot of work around creating programs that are supporting that.

I think what is important, though, is what we have to figure out — and that is what we've spent a lot of time working towards — when we hear what's happening in other ministries is how we get that information, package it up and get it into the hands of the small business community. We have more work to do. I admit that.

This was also on the list with the federal minister because it's in her mandate letter as well. With technology now, there should be the ability to say: "Here's my small business number. Here are the programs that I might be able to apply for." It makes it really easy, and it's streamlined.

I know that the federal minister is looking at that as well. We're looking at it. And you know, our commitment is to work collaboratively together to look at if there is…. Let's not reinvent the wheel. If there is a system that is working, how can we introduce that, as well, into British Columbia?

Again, if the member opposite has ideas on how that will look, we'd be happy to take that feedback.

J. Shin: I've brought this to the minister's attention before, and I've also spoken about it in the House. The minister talks about the challenge that I think all of us are very acutely aware of. I certainly appreciate all efforts being made for us to continue to navigate through those challenges to make better the advocacy that we want to do for small businesses.

On the small business, the current classification, where it's such a big umbrella term…. In other jurisdictions…. This is something that I would ask the ministry to consider — especially, for example, in the U.S. Part of the way they decided to tackle the challenge was by having, in legislation, language like "minority-owned," "women-owned" or "disadvantaged businesses."

This language exists in council or in their legislative body but not in Canada. What that simply allows the ministries or the governments to do is to be able to specifically focus their efforts on one classification of business owners or entrepreneurs or small businesses under the small business classification as it exists without necessarily changing the current framework.

[1600]

On that, I'm hoping that the ministry is actively sort of researching what other jurisdictions are doing so that we can more specifically cater services across ministries by categorizing a specific target group that can benefit from extra attention and support from their government. So I'll just put that on the record.

But on that note, given that the time is actually flying right by, I do need to be cognisant of how much I'm allocating for the rest of the binder that I need to get through.

I would like to turn to the budget now. I understand that this is a new ministry with a small budget of 3.8 million. There are some discrepancies that I just wanted to point out. Please correct me if I have this wrong, but it looks like the restated estimates for last year say that the budget for small business functions was at 2.1 million. The current budget now calls for 3.1 million. So there is a one million…. I'm not suggesting that it's an increase, but there is a discrepancy in that number there.

If the minister can please just tell us why that discrepancy is.

Hon. C. Oakes: The net budget increase has to do with how it used to exist within the previous ministry of Jobs and Tourism. The $686,000 that supports Small Business B.C. used to come out of the Ministry of Jobs and Tourism, so there's that piece; $270,000, increases, reflects the full year operational cost for 2016-2017, because we were only a part of a year with the new ministry. And $2,000 is an increase in salaries and benefits to the BCGEU staff in accordance with the current collective agreement, and a $10,000 decrease in the cost associated with employee benefits.

J. Shin: That was great. I got the BCGEU part as well, which was something that I was going to raise.

Now, the budget. Again, I'm not sure if we were calculating this right because of the transition from the previous ministry to this one. But from what we calculated, it looks like there is a salary and benefit expense that increased by $377,000 over the last year.

[1605]

It looks like the total salaries and benefits from 2015-2016 were projected to be about $1.6 million — $1.639 million. For 2016 and '17, though, the projections are looking to be over $2 million. So there is about $377,000…. I'm curious to find out if that is because of the one position vacancy in the ministry or if there are some extra staff being added in the ministry, so if the minister can clarify.

Hon. C. Oakes: The difference is between the reflection of…. We're now looking at a full year on staffing costs versus the partial year. I would also note that we went from a ministry of state to a ministry, so there is the addition of a deputy minister — as a minister — and that was the incremental cost increase.

J. Shin: Okay. For the ministry staff side, I just wanted to check to see if there was any ministry budget for the coming year for any non-political staff or government workers or special contractors. Or will the staff wage allocation as it is…? Are they specifically…? Is it all for the current organization chart as it stands, or is there room or allowances for additional staff or contracts to come into the ministry?

[1610]

Hon. C. Oakes: For the ministry portion of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction, we don't have any plans to increase any of the employees. I want to put that on the record, because we do have the 20 staff. We do have the liquor side, and of course, we have — that was in estimates from yesterday — more than 20 employees. I just wanted to clarify that.

J. Shin: Contractual obligations. On that side, I would imagine the three-year contract that's about to expire for Small Business…. I think, from the conversation that we had before, you are expecting that to continue and be renewed, likely at the same funding level. That was one thing that I wanted to get clarification on. Also, the numbers that the minister has disclosed for funding Futurpreneur mobile licences and BizPaL….

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly, but I thought that the ministry had some small grant or funding made out to Junior Achievement. Is that something that is true, and if so, will that be continuing?

Hon. C. Oakes: The contract for Small Business B.C. ends March of 2017. That's when we'll be beginning the negotiations for that particular contract.

The Junior Achievement contract actually came out of the Ministry of Jobs, Tourism and Labour, and that was for 2014-2015. It's an incredibly valuable organization. Thank you to the member opposite for raising that.

J. Shin: I know the funds are very limited in this particular ministry. Given that the ministry has taken an interest in partnering with several initiatives, like the ones that we've mentioned, I'm curious to find out if the ministry is open to or has a process where other projects or other stakeholders can apply or propose some of the ideas that they have. Is there a process where they can come forward with those ideas for the ministry to consider for their future support?

[1615]

Hon. C. Oakes: Part of the work that we do on the advocacy side, ensuring that we have really positive relationships with groups out there, is we always encourage people to bring forward their proposals or their ideas. I can tell you I have a stack of them in my office. It is my hope that as we go out and do the regional consultations, we'll continue to collect ideas and best practices to get a sense of what different business groups are wanting to achieve.

We certainly, as we've canvassed our budget, have such a limited budget in this ministry. But we do certainly have the ability to…. As we look at proposals, perhaps there's another ministry that might have a project that's aligned with what that group is trying to achieve — or, equally so, the work that we're doing to try and reach out to stakeholders across British Columbia and build those very important relationships. Perhaps there's an organization that we've heard of or a group that might actually be a funder.

I think it's critically important, as the member opposite began, that both of us are advocates for small business. We have such a limited budget within this ministry. We really have to build relationships and stakeholders and have that clear sense of, perhaps, where opportunities are — but always open to hearing projects and ideas.

J. Shin: Okay, I guess we can move on to the red tape now. Under regulatory reform and the red-tape side, I understand that, really, we are looking at more or less the one-year mark of the government's commitment for red-tape reduction.

I reviewed the report, which was fairly self-explanatory. There are numbers — like, for example, about 400 ideas that came forward. Some of the major ideas were disclosed. I have a list of them, which I've reviewed. Again, the main concern on this for British Columbians is just to make sure that the red-tape-reduction measures are in no way seen as — or can possibly be — deregulation of regulations that we absolutely need.

On that note, for the stakeholders that were engaged…. The minister has already mentioned that the main method of inviting the public for submitting their ideas was social media. I understand it was probably budgetary restraints that led to that as well. It looks like some feedback was given; 5,900 people participated by conversation or visiting the website, and all of these are great to hear from folks.

With that said, though… There's a number of items that the ministry has committed to and has already gone through in getting those particular matters done. But there is a list of many more items.

I was wondering. The ideas are submitted, and they're disclosed, but there is no timeline or definitive action plan or a priority list that I can see. If the minister can please comment on what the ministry's plan is with the other excellent ideas that are submitted.

[1620]

Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite for raising the question around timelines and the public engagement process for the red-tape-reduction part of the ministry.

[1625]

I think it's important to note that the other avenue of the consultation that we did work closely on is that we worked closely with the public service sector employees. We all know that the men and women on the front line, who.... Depending on what the ministry is, they're the ones that have identified what we can be doing.

When you take a 28-page form and you can get it down to two pages.... Or you can look at a procurement process for small businesses. If you can take that and simplify it, if you can.... We certainly recognized, very early on in this process, the importance of reaching out to our public servants that do such an amazing job.

When you go through the responses that we've had.... I think that was a critical component for this engagement process — bringing the really thoughtful ideas that did come forward. I'd just like to read on record our thanks for everyone who participated in that.

The other aspect is, of course, we reached out to the CAs on both sides of the House. I think, again, our constituency assistants are the front lines in our communities and understand if service levels aren't working as they should and if there are things that we can do to simplify. Are there regular frustrations that folks were hearing? They were a critical partner in ensuring that we were out engaging.

Over 5,900 people visited the website, and there were more than 200 ideas that were submitted. The next process for that is we would identify a lead ministry responsible for the idea that would come in and then work with those ministries to ensure that the idea was assessed for feasibility.

We have this significant spreadsheet. What we have is the idea, when it came in, whose ministry it was, the progress and the next steps. Every single item that has been brought in has been evaluated by that ministry. Every single minister has within their mandate letter that they are to be working to look at ways that they can remove some of those frustrations or simplify or streamline or find new efficiencies.

There is a working group at both the deputy minister level and the assistant deputy minister level. There is also a regulatory person identified in each ministry to make sure that action is being taken on the ideas that have been identified through this consultation process. The Public Service Agency continues to be engaged in this process.

[J. Thornthwaite in the chair.]

We have identified what we call the greens — those items, through a ministry, that we were able to move quickly on. Again, the member mentioned.... We weren't looking at any type of regulation. Regulations aren't all bad, right? They're needed for public safety. They're needed for the proper functioning of society. But where there were those nuances or those frustrations or those pieces that we could ensure that we could just do a little better job, we would code it.

The yellow ones are the ones that are on track and that the ministries are closely monitoring, going back and forth. For example, a number of responses came around tax policy, even communication, the PST. The member and I have had this conversation of sometimes.... Are our government publications easy to read? We canvassed that a little bit early on.

There were a lot of people that engaged in this process and provided ideas. I think that helped formulate the announcement during the budget about reviewing and having a tax commission to go out and really have that conversation about what we can look at. I think a huge part of ensuring we're supporting small businesses, again, is making sure how we're communicating. Do you understand what we are trying to achieve in government?

[1630]

The timeline is, in a sense, a moving timeline. Each of the items that have been identified are very…. Some are small, and some are large.

The one I would like to bring up…. It's also not only provincial items that were raised. The one that really touched my heart…. You know, it's unfortunate. We hope that no one has to go through difficulty when you have a loss in a family. Sometimes the amount of paperwork that is required can be daunting at a very, very difficult time.

In the U.K., it was interesting that they had a program where all of the different levels of government were able to work collectively, together. You have, basically, one form that you fill out, and it filters out to all the other levels of government.

We're working with the federal government on some of these initiatives as well. I think they're really important, and they're valid. So we'll continue to move forward on that. But again, if the member opposite wants to get updates regularly on where we're at, we'd be happy to do that.

J. Shin: I would like to echo what the minister is saying. Even just Bill 3, which was introduced this session, I think is a classic example of some of the unnecessary red tape. For such a small change that we can introduce in government, the kind of difference that it can make in people's lives is very significant. So while this is good work, my job is to always say: "Faster, more, and let's do it better."

But with that said, I didn't keep track of the hour. We've been at this for two hours, and I think it's reasonable that we get a short break, if that's all right — a recess?

The Chair: Would you like a recess, a five-minute recess?

The committee is recessed.

The committee recessed from 4:32 p.m. to 4:42 p.m.

[J. Thornthwaite in the chair.]

J. Shin: To resume where we left off on the red-tape-reduction efforts. From the report, along with the list and appendix of all these sorts of great ideas that came forward, the ministry has specifically highlighted a couple of items. That would include simplifying the child care subsidy process for parents, improving Internet accessibility and, of course, examples like the business tax return process — simplifying and improving that process — and so on and so forth.

One of the things that maybe I might have missed in my review is a red-tape-reduction suggestion that came forward from the credit unions in their letter. I think British Columbians love credit unions and the role that they play for our community. Central 1 Credit Union has sent in a letter to the attention of the minister. While I can go on at length about the important work that credit unions do, I'll cut to the chase.

They're really asking for amendment of the Credit Union Incorporation Act to allow for electronic mailing of the notices of AGMs if the member has already indicated that they prefer to receive communication electronically. The second request is to, again, amend the cost-of-credit-disclosure regulation of the Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act — again, to allow for electronic disclosure related to the fixed-credit agreements.

I find that their requests are in line with what the ministry is already doing in improving Internet accessibility as far as how a lot of these forms are done and how we communicate to British Columbians, whether we are government or business. If the minister can tell us a little bit about where the ministry is at with this particular request from the industry.

[1645]

Hon. C. Oakes: The two items that the member raised are in the system that we have for reducing red tape. What I can tell you is that it's in the Ministry of Finance. I know that it is under review as part of…. Those pieces have to be reviewed every ten years, and so I do know that the Minister of Finance is reviewing that legislation.

J. Shin: I understand that it is currently under review with the Ministry of Finance. I suppose the stakeholders would probably appreciate some reassurance that there's good consideration that's being paid to it and that there's advocacy from this ministry on their behalf on the red-tape-reduction aspect of it.

That's why I just want to put that on record as to this particular request that came in from the credit unions being actively considered by the government. Also to echo what they mentioned in the letter — that the current review by the Ministry of Finance for the credit union governing legislation that's, I believe, being done this year, and the implementation of the changes that are imposed from that review, won't take effect for perhaps another year or maybe even couple years.

The credit unions were saying these two things. We can probably roll it out sooner than later, because it is costing the industry about $2 million a year that they could have shaved off. It's environmentally sound. It's what the members prefer. If anything, like most efforts that the ministry is making for red-tape reduction, it's always sooner than later. I just want to put that on record.

Something else, and this is a bit of self-interest here as well, is that making things electronically available has many advantages, I think. It's no news that it reduces our carbon footprint. A lot of the things that we can do digitally would help free us from paper and the cutting-of-the-trees way of doing things. There's that.

There's obviously the cost-effectiveness that you get to decrease on the cost of mailing, the cost of paper, the cost of staff to assemble the mailings that go out, among many other things. Doing things electronically also it has its merits on making it more accessible and convenient for people.

On that, I just wanted to see if I have the ministry's support, if I may say so, on electronic petitioning. It's in the ministry mandate, and — I don't know if I have the quote right here with me — it's about making sure that small businesses, as well as British Columbian consumers in general, whatever they want to voice their opinions with the government directly, to be able to do it electronically, I think, is a way forward.

[1650]

As the minister is aware, I've introduced a bill on this twice, once in 2014 and once in 2015. In that time, not only have other jurisdictions like the U.K., Australia and even Quebec already gone forward with electronic petitioning, but in that two years since I have introduced this bill, it was also a motion brought forward federally from an opposition bench. It was accepted. It was given a reading. There was a healthy debate. It was voted on in majority favour by members from all parties.

Since then, I was very happy to see that now Canadians can go to a website. I just want to put it on the record, because it was very encouraging to see a model of where we can be in British Columbia. On the website now, you can simply go to petitions.parl.gc.ca. Then you can sign and view all the active petitions that are put forward by all members from all parties. They can also have an option to create their own petition and start it on line on the government website.

There's also a response section where the government has the mandate to respond within 45 calendar days to every petition that has gone through the process and was presented in the House of Commons by the member that vouched for that particular petition. It also has terms of reference about the procedural and technical aspects of what petitioning is, the history of petitioning and why it's important in our democratic society.

If the minister — sorry to put you on the spot here — will please share with us her thoughts on the electronic petitioning and what it can mean for British Columbians, given that the federal counterpart, other provincial jurisdictions as well as multiple countries around the world have already gone with modernizing this particular process.

Hon. C. Oakes: I know that the member is very passionate about this, and it's important to raise this. What I can recommend to the member opposite is that we now have on the red-tape-reduction website the ability, 24 hours a day, to submit ideas on how the government can reduce red tape. I would recommend to the member opposite that if people feel the same way as you about the importance of this, we would encourage people to include it in the reducing-red-tape conversation.

J. Shin: I'm very optimistic about electronic petitioning. Even Madame Speaker of the House, in the issue of Parliamentarian…. It was an issue talking about modernizing government, and she has actually put in a very supportive article on that note for, potentially, electronic petitions coming into B.C.

On that, I just want to remind the minister that in her latest service plan, its purpose does state that the ministry manages key lines of government services that support "a modern regulatory environment for citizens and businesses," "providing more convenience for consumers" and reducing red tape that "makes it difficult for citizens and businesses to interact with government."

On that mandate, the 24-7 submission button on the government website is something that I can definitely feel positive about. But by that same token, if you can extend the same efforts to make sure that the petitioning can also be done electronically, that's something that I would like to put on the record for as well.

[1655]

On that, another thing that I just wanted to raise for the minister's attention is on the…. This ministry is very interesting, in the sense that I feel as though the Small Business Ministry, as it's currently defined — with a limited budget but having a definite voice in the government and amongst cabinet members — gets to, essentially, act as kind of a GP, like a family doctor. You get to filter through multiple ideas that you collect from the road and try to come up with something that you can take to different ministries.

What I want to probe a little bit more during this time is that there are opportunities to be had and to be leveraged by having the ministry staff…. I know that there is no shortage of good work. But with that, if I can call on the ministry to continue working with other ministries, to be that good facilitator and liaison between small businesses and all the other ministries that have the funding for grants or for more contracts that can be given out for small businesses — so, for that, less of a fund attached to some of this work, but more, I suppose, the ministry staff resources.

I understand that the ministry has some priorities that I'm aware of, like the employer Best Practices Guide. It's something that the minister and I had a chance to chat a little bit about, which is not just working with our stakeholders, like Small Business B.C., but from the government with a ministry budget that would justify it — so to make sure that we have as many documents and guidelines available through the government.

One of the ideas that came forward was: what does being a good employer look like for our small business owners? A lot of the times it's not uncommon for me to hear from small business owners that feel very threatened by some of the letters and communication that they receive from the government. I know that the intention is not to, but sometimes when it comes to announcing new regulations or changes in penalties or consequences of non-compliance, for example, a lot of the communications….

The minister talked about how we can simplify the language, and we also canvassed a bit about how we can make this available in multiple languages. I think it's also very important to highlight the tone in which these communications go out.

I do believe that government's intent is not to be the regulatory reinforcing police body, so to speak, for our small business owners, but to take every opportunity to make sure that the tone of their communication reflects that the intention, as government body, is to educate and engage, and through that education and engagement, empower good practices, as opposed to coming down hard on the small businesses.

I think every small business owner has the good intention to be compliant. A lot of the times it's a matter of simply being unaware or less than exposed. I think I had a very candid conversation with the minister. When I go home after doing my day's job, if I get a new iPad or even a new TV, it comes with a fairly straightforward instruction booklet, but I just don't want to read through all the fine print. It can be much.

If we lend, in the same sort of latitude that we give ourselves, for small business owners, I think it's not unreasonable at all that we continue to do better on the communications side.

The employer Best Practices Guide. What I mean by that is: given that this is something that I have already talked about with the minister, is the ministry prepared to or willing to look for ways to clearly outline — rich in infographics, very easy-to-read languages, in multiple languages — best-employer guideline literature?

[1700]

That could be quite useful as a government resource — even for me, as an advocate, as an MLA — that I could take to stakeholders and to small business communities, besides the regular sort of literature that's already available.

Hon. C. Oakes: I think it's a testament to the member opposite the fact that you advocate very strongly. I think it's helpful for us to have dialogue in advance so that you understand — not in advance to this, but in advance to just general collaborative types of conversations….

I want the member opposite to know that when you brought that forward to me and we started to look at the tone of what we were doing with government, we brought it to the Small Business Roundtable, and we had a very thorough discussion around that.

As a government, the type of communication…. I like that you talk about education, engagement and empowerment. I think those should be values and principles, as a government, when we look at the type of material we produce. It's incredibly important.

The member opposite talked about creating what a good employer looks like. While it doesn't specifically exist within this ministry, the member opposite has my commitment that we will work with multiple ministries to ensure that we create a very simple guide with the intent, again, to educate, to engage and empower our small businesses.

As well, we have a small business accord that we have signed, with the principles. I think it's important that we read out the goal: "We, the undersigned, establish this B.C. small business accord and its principles to help foster a progressive business culture where government initiatives support current and future generations of small business owners across British Columbia."

[1705]

The principles. "Consider the needs and impacts of small businesses in policy and program decisions to enhance business certainty, access to qualified labour, access to capital and technology adoption.

"Foster a regulatory environment that small business can access, navigate and influence effectively and efficiently.

"Design government programs and resources affecting small businesses so that they are well developed, accessible, properly funded and effectively communicated.

"Foster thoughtful collaboration among all levels of government, including First Nations.

"Deploy educational and training programs that are future-focused and aligned to meet the changing needs of small business and labour talent it develops.

"Create long-term growth opportunities for small business through government procurements."

I think it's important to read into the record because we have an accord. We have an accountability to ensure, with what we put and sign, that we are moving forward. You have my commitment that we will be working across ministries with that small business lens to reflect the type of tone, as government, that we send out to small business.

J. Shin: No, I wouldn't expect any less from the minister. I think respect is something that can always be at the centre of how we communicate to each other, regardless of what medium, especially in a written language to a lot of our small business owners and immigrant small business owners. Sometimes a piece of communication from government can make all the difference as to whether it's a frightening experience or whether it's an empowering and engaging process.

Thank you so much for that commitment. I really appreciate that.

On the red tape, I'm just trying to get into a little bit of the details here, as far as the numbers are concerned, so that I understand where these numbers are coming from and how it's tracked and reported.

The government document on regulatory reform in B.C. is fairly easy to follow, so there isn't too much that I am concerned with, although I do just want to clarify a few things.

In the number that's disclosed, the government uses the timelines. It speaks of an inventory of all regulatory requirements that was created and that since 2001, this number has been reduced by 43 percent. I'm assuming, by how it reads, that it was in 2001 that there was the attempt to get an inventory of all requirements. Using that number, to where we are today, it looks like 43 percent is reduced.

With that, I'm curious to find out if that's a net reduction, because there are new regulations that come through. The ministry is well aware of what MMBC has meant on the regulatory side. I understand it's with the Ministry of Environment. On that note, there's certainly great advocacy to be done because of the folks that are impacted by that particular regulation. As important as it is, it could have been done better. Certainly, there's a voice to be heard from this ministry to the Minister of Environment on that note.

Where I'm hoping to get clarification is on the tracking side. I saw the ministry's frequently asked questions section. It says: "How we count." But that doesn't quite clarify what I'm hoping to get, which is: does the ministry keep track, on a yearly basis or a quarterly basis or whatever the time period is…? Does it actually count how many new regulations come into play and how many red-tape reductions the ministry achieved? Is this information available for us to view per line item?

For example, the stakeholders are very curious about how many new regulations and how many hours of potential administrative burden were imposed by MMBC, but there's no clear way for us to dissect that information now, as it's presented. If the minister can please give us her explanation of that.

[1710]

Hon. C. Oakes: I might start at the end and then work forward, if that's okay.

Each ministry reconciles every year, on March 31, the net change of regulation, and that's public. So you can, on our website, have that.

A regulatory requirement — I'll start at what a regulatory requirement is, to help answer the question that the member asked. A regulatory requirement is any action or step that a citizen, business or government must take to access government services or programs, carry out a business or pursue legislated privileges.

To be honest, my colleagues often will say: "Well, why don't I get a greater count? I've reduced all this work, or I've done XYZ. Why doesn't it get coded as such?" Really, the regulatory requirement is any action or step that a citizen, business or government must take to access government services or programs.

In 2001, the government did commit to reducing the number of regulatory requirements by one third in three years. In order to meet that goal, we needed to conduct a baseline account of regulatory requirements in B.C. and measure this against this baseline. I think that's, really, an important statement, because it's really important to have consistency and to have a baseline of how we measure, as a government, to understand how our performance is.

I've had the conversation around the qualitative side, the hours it takes, such as what the member mentioned, and it's a valid point. So we are looking at ways to start looking at that qualitative side of the conversation. But it's critically important from baseline performance metrics that we are consistent, to understand: are we on track? Are we targeted?

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I mean, we have a commitment as a net-zero commitment until 2019, so it's really important for us, again, to have that consistency and certainty. We don't want to be accused of skewing a number closer to 2019 because we've adjusted the type of measurement that we've had. I think that's really important. But the member's mention on the qualitative-size point is taken.

J. Shin: Thanks for the answer.

What I really enjoyed, actually, preparing for this estimate, is…. I love the performance matrixes. That's just setting smart goals and having something to measure ourselves against, whether we are making progress or not. That's something that I absolutely thrive on, so I can definitely appreciate the minister's emphasis on the importance of a performance matrix, whether it's quantitative or qualitative. We strive for both. But I understand. Qualitative is a significant undertaking for us to be able to have matrixes for that.

On that, there's some…. I think we do have to draw the line somewhere, and that's where the baseline really comes in. I just want to probe a little bit. I understand. Some of these baselines can be quite arbitrary, because we've got to start from somewhere.

In performance measure 3 in the ministry's strategic plan, it says that, to this fiscal year, the ministry is targeting about another 10 percent reduction overall. And from 2017, it's committing to — what feels like an arbitrary cap, at least — a zero net increase and to follow the same sort of trend all the way to 2019.

Can the minister please share with us the rationale for this? Should there be further attempts for red-tape reduction in the following year or the year after? I'm just wondering. What's the rationale as to how we came up with this particular goal?

Hon. C. Oakes: I think it's important to note what we've seen by having this commitment to 2019. It really has changed the culture that I see with my colleagues around the table, and I think, within government in general. I think that there is an absolute awareness around…. We physically, as cabinet members, have to sign a sheet of paper every time we introduce something so that we are aware of the regulatory count that we're bringing forward. There is this absolute increased awareness — and almost competitiveness — when we're looking at that, which is driving the type of change that I think is necessary to ensure that we continue to move this forward.

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I think it's also important to note that, like anything, there was a significant amount of work that was done in the first few years. What we are going through on reducing red tape is you look at the easy-to-dos — right? — when you start a process, like any that you take on. Looking at reducing red tape…. Well, we did it with reducing red tape, but also with the regulatory count.

A lot of stuff happened in the first few years which really drove the numbers up. And now we're looking at, really, that net zero to 2019. But we always encourage everyone to continue to look at how we can do things better. I think you'll see us — as part of the conversation that's coming out of this and the reducing-red-tape piece and the conversation that's happening within the cultural aspect of our government — have good performance indicators on this file.

J. Shin: Now, on that, if I'm understanding the minister correctly, the performance measure or the ministry's goal for 10 percent reduction this fiscal year and at least committing to zero net increases is more of an evolving commitment. That's what I'm hearing, which is good in a sense. It sounds like the ministries are working together to make sure this continues to be a priority as opposed to any sort of hard-set goal, so to speak.

Now, on that, I see that CFIB is included in the report as another performance measure as to the grade that it provides for the reduction effort. I do want to take the opportunity that…. I've had a chance to communicate with CFIB on a number of occasions now. The work that they do is important. I believe they have about 111,000 members across Canada from coast to coast over the last 40 years or so.

I bring the same concerns to CFIB as I do to the minister about making sure that the advocacy body — as much as it claims to be a big voice for the small business — when they look at their membership, reflects the kind of diversity that I think is so important in a file like this.

The reason that I just want to talk a little about CFIB is that this is the body that I think government, as well as other business stakeholders as well as their membership, continue to rely on for surveying, polling, data analysis, trends and projections and so on and so forth. On that, I find it is important to be aware of the reports that CFIB generates. They do a great job.

Also, at the same time, I'm curious to find out if the government does any sort of in-house polling or data analysis, which I think is very important, given the position that you're in with access to information from across the ministries, where you can have a look into the number of small businesses that may start with the registrations that come through but also, at the same time, be able to keep track of how many of those businesses survive past three years or past five years or even meet the ten-year mark.

I'm not sure if there is any tracking system within the ministry or somewhere else in the government. I think as much as we talk about a robust, vibrant small business community…. I speak from experience. My parents, when they immigrated here, it was part of their immigration or citizenship requirement to invest in the local economy by starting a small business and hiring X number of Canadians.

What that means is, given that we have a great number of immigrants that come through, I'm wondering how many of the businesses that report on numbers are actually successful businesses or businesses that have to survive the tough climate, even if they're not profitable in any shape or form, but they kind of have to stick through the tough time to fulfil whatever immigration requirements they need and so on and so forth.

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I'm quite keen to see if there are any data available through government — because I haven't been able to find it elsewhere — that keeps track of sort of the turnover rates or the survival rates of small businesses in B.C.

Hon. C. Oakes: Going back to the comment of CFIB, it's difficult when, as a government, there are a lot of stakeholders that are paying attention to the work we're doing and making sure that they're holding us to account, as they should.

I am pleased that we were the only jurisdiction in Canada, again, to get a grade A for the work we are doing. But it means that we are held to a very high standard and that we are on a national stage of what type of work we are we are doing about reducing the regulatory count and the net-zero commitment we have.

I think it's important that while great work has been done, it sets a really high standard, and it sets precedence. It means we must continuously work to strive to not just achieve but to go beyond what we put out there as performance indicators.

Our ministry, in collaboration with B.C. Stats, is responsible for generating the small business profile. That captures key small business–related stats such as small business growth by region and industry composition of small business sector. We also track annually the number of women business owners and aboriginal-owned businesses.

We don't specifically capture small business failures. The Canadian superintendent of bankruptcy does track insolvency rates for businesses and publishes this on line. For 2015, B.C. saw a decline in the overall number of business insolvencies from 226 in 2014 to 222 in 2015. They don't report on the size of the businesses that are filing for insolvency or other personal details like gender or ethnicity. The statistics are available by sector, but only at a national level.

[J. Yap in the chair.]

The member raises a good point. Again, we are working towards being exemplary and leading the country as being the most business-friendly jurisdiction. To look at how we raise that bar…. I think information is critically important.

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If there are stakeholders you may know that collect data that we could perhaps work with, I encourage the member to provide that. The member opposite mentioned earlier that on the multicultural side, there are lots of organizations, business organizations that work…. If there is data collected and they wish to share that, I think it would be interesting, in the profile, to see what that looks like.

I know the member opposite likes numbers and to know where we're at. We had 382,600 small businesses in 2015, and 199,900 were sole proprietors. The percentage of jobs provided by small business was 54 percent. We ranked No. 1 with small business per capita. The percentage of GDP generated by small business, 33 percent, and the value of exports shipped by small businesses, $11 billion.

The other thing is we reached out to Futurpreneur. I think that's also an interesting statistic. The member had raised to me previous about what the five-year rate of success is with small businesses. So we went out to Futurpreneur, because we know that that's a lot of start-ups and young entrepreneurs, to see that survival rate. It's at 50 to 60 percent. We'll continue to work with our stakeholders and other stakeholders that the member opposite may wish to bring forward, because I think it's an important one.

And 37 percent of self-employed small businesses are women. The percentage of small and medium-sized enterprises owned solely by women is 15.5 percent. The percentage of women-owned small and medium-sized enterprises with one to four employees is 59.2 percent, and the percentage with less than 20 employees is 92.7 percent.

It's interesting to get some of these stats. We need to continue to build on this as we drive to be the most business-friendly jurisdiction in Canada.

J. Shin: Thank you for the answer. The second thing, on the whole theme of how we can maximize the ministry's work with limited funds but in a special position to be able to work with other ministries in the government, is the topic of the small business awareness strategy, which I understand is a commitment from the government, for this ministry.

When I tried to learn more about the strategy, I couldn't get past the usual rhetoric of what's outlined in the strategic plan. It's definitely mentioned in the plan, but I couldn't see, necessarily, the performance measure attached to it, or what have you. If the minister can please share with us any sort of timeline or what those strategies look like, what stakeholders are being engaged and where, and what kinds of outcomes the ministry is hoping to achieve through this particular strategic effort.

For myself in this job, I very quickly realized that it was one thing for me to advertise, "I have an open house today," or: "I've got a round-table discussion that I want to host, and I invite all of you to come and join us, and let me know."

I piloted this particular conversation with the North Road stretch where there are a lot of Korean shops and other minority-owned businesses that are very active. There are about 400 businesses in that small stretch. I thought: "Well, if I can get 40 folks out, that would be great." RSVPs weren't coming in. Obviously, a lot of these business owners were: "If I go and do your consultation, public hearing, who is going to watch my shop for me in the meantime?"

Often it became an issue that.... It's not a lack of awareness or lack of interest, but it was just simply a lack of availability for a lot of these small business owners to participate in those events. What that meant was the validity of the so-called public consultation or the hearing, which I was hosting with all good intentions, was fairly limited.

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Instead, the room turned out to be filled by stakeholders who already had voiced their opinions through other venues and had decided to throw in another voice at my event, or folks that I've already talked to. For me, I figured at some point that this wasn't going be the way that I genuinely engage with people that haven't had a voice or just can't get around to engaging with us.

When I got the file in Small Business, that's when I decided: "You know what? Instead of putting on another event, I'm just going to hop in my car and literally drive through town." The minister and I had a good chat about this. I did count my klicks. I think it's about 12,000 klicks that I put on my little Fiat.

My mom is very upset, because the car is full of dents now and has cracks on the windshield. I wear them proudly, because I was able to visit 54 communities throughout B.C., although there were scary moments through the rural communities, where the roads are nothing I've driven before. I nearly killed myself driving on the gravel road. Brakes on gravel road is not good.

When I tallied up the number of businesses that I actually…. I would just park on one side of the street and zigzag into every single one, and the numbers tally up to be 400 businesses that I visited personally at their shops. I was just chatting with them very casually as they were pouring coffee for their clients or tallying up their inventory or their stocks.

The kinds of conversations that I was able to engage in through entrepreneurs at their stores are quite different from a formalized setting in a round table or in a public hearing where I'm doing most of the talking and the audience is sort of on the receiving end. For myself, that's the privilege and the luxury that I have as an opposition MLA, and I understand it's not the reality for the ministry staff to get in their cars and visit all the communities. That's not what I'm suggesting here.

What was really interesting from my conversations with the business owners is that when you pose an open-ended question about what kind of ticks you off or bugs you most, or what are you worried about, the open-endedness of that question sort of leads to all sorts of things you didn't even think were an issue before. That's why I find that a lot of the service that we put out, including our stakeholders, with all the good intentions, can be too prescribed, where we almost prompt for a specific type of answer.

If you send out a multiple choice sort of questionnaire or rate from one to five or what have you, and only put in so many indicators that you think are important but do not necessarily capture all of the other array of issues out there, then the kind of feedback and the kinds of polls and results that we get back — how valid are those? It's something that I think we always need to pay attention to.

The reason that I just wanted to share this piece a little bit with the minister, as I have before, is that when we talk about small business awareness strategy, I think it's important for the ministry to keep in mind and always look objectively at the kind of feedback they receive and the kind of outreach they believe they're doing. How valid are those efforts? That's really what it comes down to.

Sorry about being really long-winded about it, but if the minister can please share what this strategy really looks like, and where we are at with this particular strategy, that would be great.

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Hon. C. Oakes: My first comment is that, again, I commend the member opposite for going out and visiting 54 communities. You've put on a lot of kilometres.

I think what is incredibly relevant to what the member said — and I've certainly found it myself — is…. We have multiple approaches to how we reach out to stakeholders and how we engage on the small business front, but I think by far the most effective is just to get out and to talk to a business and to keep that question open and just to have dialogue, have a conversation — similar to what we've done today.

I think it's important to engage, because when you go into their small business shop, whether it's trying to access an employee or they're having problems with a specific element of government, everyone's circumstance is different.

One of the things that I made the commitment to as a new minister was, as part of the round table consultations where we'd go out into communities, to also make sure I built time in just to go and walk down the street and to walk into the businesses and to have that conversation. You're right. They're really busy running their store. A lot of times when we do consultations, it's associations or it's groups that represent small business that provide us feedback. It's critically important for all of us.

I would say one of the things I encouraged all of the MLAs on our side of the House during the Christmas holidays is…. I gave them Business Walk forms, and I said: "When you go back home, here's a Business Walk. Meet with your business improvement area or your economic development. Meet with your local government. Target ten businesses and just go out and meet with them. Ask them how they're doing. Ask them, 'Are you expecting to grow over the next year? What are the challenges that you see that are coming up?'"

Maybe that's something that both sides of the House could take on, because here's the first thing I can tell you: As the member opposite alluded to, as the minister, it is incredibly difficult to get out to every to single community in British Columbia. Our requirement is to be in the House and to be bringing that voice of what we're hearing. It's always that tension or that challenge I feel as a minister.

Again, though, let's empower our colleagues. Let's empower our MLAs that sit in the House to go out and to do that on-the-ground biz walk in their community and bring back that feedback. I think it's critically important as part of that small business awareness strategy that we do.

There are a couple of things again — just stats, because they're interesting to note. Part of the small business awareness strategy that we did is…. We did do that welcome package, if you're a new business. We've had, to date, 8,500 packages that have gone out since we've launched that, which I think is fantastic. We distribute it electronically through B.C. registry services to all new business registrants, including small business resource handouts that include valuable resources for small businesses.

In 2015-2016, the small business branch also participated in Small Business Information Expos that were in Vancouver, Victoria, Langley and Nanaimo. The Small Business Roundtable in 2015 — we created a subcommittee to look at how you create that plan to get out there and do these regional consultations as well.

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As we talked about a little bit earlier, we've got a Small Business Roundtable that is representative of a number of different stakeholders across the region. How do we empower them to go out in their communities? Whether it's a particular issue that we're trying to gauge or get information on or if there is something that we need to pay particular attention to, they're a great resource as well.

The small business branch staff attended the B.C. Tech Summit in January to raise awareness of Small Business B.C. I think it's interesting maybe to put on record, to talk a little bit about, B.C.'s technology and small business. We've talked a lot about where are we going in society and what does that look like in technology and the importance of that.

The B.C. tech sector is a very large component of B.C. small businesses. So 6,700 of the 9,700 businesses in the tech sector have less than four employees. Another 2,500 have less than 49 employees. So 95 percent of the businesses in the tech sector are small businesses. The number of small businesses in this sector is growing — an 8.1 increase in 2013 alone.

The number of large businesses in this sector with more than 500 employees, it's interesting to note, is actually declining. You're seeing a growth on the small business side, and they're all across British Columbia, which is wonderful to see. So 92 percent of the business in this sector are service-orientated, which is generally, by definition, smaller. We are proud that we had the opportunity to work with the ministry and attend that tech conference.

In December, we announced the creation of $100 million B.C. tech fund, because again, when we went out to talk to small businesses, one of the things that we heard was that it was difficult to get access to that kind of capital. We're really proud of the work that we've been able to do with other ministries on ensuring that we're continuing to grow and support these very, very important small businesses.

I read out where we're at on the small business accord, which again, drives the culture within government to make sure you have that small business lens and, if we're putting policies forward, that we understand what that impact will be on small business.

I think it's important to note that the member opposite raised a number of things that I think we also have to bring back into this awareness strategy — things like: how do we grow the stakeholder list? What are some of the tools or pieces that we can look at to grow that? What does the best practice employee guide that the member opposite raised and we made that commitment to create…? I think that's part of the small business awareness strategy.

I think this is an evolving awareness strategy. I think it's important to note, as well, that I will be meeting with the federal minister again to look at what kind of initiatives we can be working on with the federal government in support of small business and to help achieve goals of making sure that we continue to be the most business-friendly, growing small-business sector.

J. Shin: Thanks to the minister for her answer.

Another thing that I just wanted to probe a little bit was on the tax panel. There were the 2012 recommendations. With the new panel being called upon, there is some concern, or at least a healthy curiosity, as to what recommendations...? As they stand from 2012, what's the justification for another tax panel being called upon? And what are some existing recommendations that the government can focus on?

If the minister can please let us know a little bit about where that's heading, the details too, I think that would be great.

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Hon. C. Oakes: I can't speak specifically on the 2012 and would refer the member opposite to the Minister of Finance. What I can say, which I think is really important to note again is that we heard, when we opened up the dialogue around reducing red tape.... A number of things came out of that.

For example, we have a changing economy in British Columbia. When you look at technology.... When we look at new markets and we look at what's happening even around time zones and how we are transforming, it's important to have an opportunity to review what those changes are and to look at: are we competitive? Are there opportunities for us to be more productive, looking at increasing investments in our new modern economy?

We heard that through the process of opening up, talking to citizens across British Columbia. We're pleased that the commission to explore tax competitiveness, through the Ministry of Finance, has really identified that. They want to have that dialogue. I certainly look forward to what that conversation will entail. I think you'll also find.... I think that goes back to an earlier conversation that we had, that if you go on, sometimes, a website.... Is it business-friendly?

I agree with the member opposite. I don't think a small business owner sets out to not comply with what our taxation system is. I think it is generally, in most respects…. Sometimes it's difficult to understand what is being put out. That is a lens that I think I'd like to see our team, when we're looking at how you reduce those frustrations, put a laser focus on that.

If you increase compliance through education and empowerment and that engagement piece that the member opposite talked about before, we're going to grow our GDP. You're going to see greater small business success, and quite frankly, there's going to be more revenue into the province.

I'm encouraged by this conversation that's going to happen. I'm sorry that I can't answer the specifics about the 2012 but would be happy to pass that message on to the Minister of Finance.

J. Shin: Something that I actually missed that was identified in goal 1 for the strategic plan for the ministry was the LNG–Buy B.C. program. Again, that particular line item didn't come with performance measures that I could pick up from the plan. If the minister can please tell us a little bit about how this program is going so far.

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I do appreciate the fact that the industry had a major downturn last year. With that said, though, what are some definitive plans or the advocacy that's being done by the Small Business Ministry? That would be great.

Hon. C. Oakes: Currently my ministry is working closely with MIT and JTST to develop the action plan for the buy-LNG tool to ensure that we are meeting the needs of small businesses. I continue to be a strong advocate on that front to ensure that the types of tools that will be included on that will effectively meet what is happening on the ground.

Maybe I can go to a kind of more personal story on this particular one — really, probably back to the boots on the ground, what LNG looks like, the opportunities and what we're seeing in some of our smaller resource-based communities.

We had a crane company that was looking at bidding on some of the larger projects that were happening in the northwest. One of the things that was identified early on is that in order to prequalify, they needed to be of a certain size. They had to have a certain amount of equipment and a certain amount of employees. It was sometimes difficult for a lot of the small businesses to put that bid in, and we were seeing that.

One of the things we have been working on…. This is kind of the essence of what this tool can provide. You now start getting a listing of all of the small businesses that may connect to that whole industry. It's expanding the scope, as well, of what service providers are.

But in our instance, the crane company actually found a couple of other companies that were operating in northern British Columbia. What they did was, through a supply chain connector, they got together and pooled their resources. Instead of being competitors on a large, major project, they joined forces, put in a bid and were able to get a significant large contract up in the northwest.

That is something that we've identified. We heard through both the round table and quite frankly…. We heard out on the ground: how do we make sure our small businesses are getting access to some of these large, major projects that are happening in British Columbia?

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Having tools like this where we can connect small businesses to other small businesses to help support them through that bid process is important.

These are the types of conversations we're having, with the action plan for the buy-LNG tool, as well as, again, that same idea, that package: what are the resources available to you as a small business owner? We've certainly heard that, that sometimes we have multiple websites out there. If you're a small business owner and you're just looking for help, you might google one particular product and it creates lists.

One of the things we're trying to work closely with across ministries is: how do we make sure…? It's almost like you have that one-stop piece of information where you can go to if you are looking for small business information. We continue to work with that.

I think the strength of this particular buy-LNG plan in my mandate letter, the value of that, is that I can have those types of conversations with multi-ministries to drive that advocacy and to drive that change.

J. Shin: Thanks to the minister for her answer. That's such a common struggle. I think it's a challenge — that is, how to have resources and programs and services, as great as they are, and make sure that our small businesses, or those who need those programs, are aware of them. How accessible is it, as far as their level of awareness or their level of literacy and availability, to make a bid for those things? I think it's definitely a challenge I can agree with the minister on. It's no easy feat.

With that said, though, what I can tell the minister is that over the past three years…. When I first got elected, small business was actually one of the first files that I was given at the time. I moved with the minister to the culture file and then moved back to small business when the minister made the move as well.

Something that I've noticed is that when anybody types in "small business in B.C." in Google, just an average user, the kind of search results that Google would generate — for example. There has been an improvement. I'm pretty sure it's nothing that's intentional. I think it's more organic. But search engine optimization is one of the things that stakeholders and some folks….

Some of the younger entrepreneurs have mentioned that sometimes…. In the meantime, while we are trying to put everything together in a streamlined format, it can actually be quite as simple as just fine-tweaking, which you can do for search engine optimization through most of the web browsers.

That can help produce, at least on the first page of results, the kinds of things that you would want British Columbians to see when they type in popular key words in a Google search. It's something that definitely, I think, will bring dividends that go far beyond the kind of investment that it requires, which is very minimal for simple SEO functions. On that, another thing that I wanted to probe a little bit more on….

Actually, before we move on to the next topic, just going back to the LNG-Buy B.C. program, I want to put it on the record that we expect this ministry to stand up and advocate hard for local procurements and to make sure that our local communities benefit, their full share and beyond, when we do have contracts that come in from the resource sector.

As far as the next topic is concerned, it is also in the ministry's mandate to work with the Minister of International Trade to look for ways to increase the ability of small businesses here in B.C. to export to new markets. I'll be curious to see where the ministry is at with that.

Given that with the LNG-Buy B.C. program it sounds like, from what the minister has said, that we can look forward to some sort of a strategic plan in the coming year. If we can get a sense of where we are for that conversation with the Ministry of International Trade, that'd be great.

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Hon. C. Oakes: For the question around the export side of the mandate letter, currently there are 5,882 businesses in B.C. that export, which is only 3 percent of the 190,400 companies that have at least one employee. Nationally, B.C. is under-represented in the number of businesses that export. We absolutely can be doing better. MIT, in its jobs plan strategy, has committed to increasing the number of companies that export. As the Minister of Small Business, I will continue to be a strong advocate for supporting our small businesses in the export strategy.

We did conduct a survey to understand which businesses export and how they currently access services to help them with that exporting. The results reviewed and confirmed, as we talked about, that businesses actually find it really difficult to navigate the maze of services available. They strongly endorse the province's initiative to streamline this. So we recognize that we need to do better.

Some of the other things that we heard is that there are lots of services out there on the export side, but we heard that they aren't visible enough. We heard that it's difficult to navigate what is available. There's no single window. There are generalized services available, but businesses also want specific, actionable support.

We also identified that it's not always necessary to spend more money on programs that already exist. We need to look at how it's easier to access those that already exist — exactly what the member opposite was referring to. I also think it's important, as government, to identify when we're not doing as good in a particular area as we could be.

I think it's also important to note that as a minister…. We certainly did it on the red-tape-reduction piece, and we've certainly done it here. We want to go out and talk to small businesses. We want to hear — even if it's the negative — because that's how we improve things. I think this is a really good example of listening to what small businesses are saying and ensuring that we're able to take that back.

As the Minister of Small Business, it is my responsibility within my mandate letter to make sure that when we do the survey out again, we are increasing the number of small businesses that export and that it's easier to utilize our services.

J. Shin: Going back to the mandate letter, one of the follow-up pieces that I wanted to touch on was after the introduction of the very long-awaited and also very important Franchises Act that came into the session last year. I think I've canvassed this with the minister during the committee stage of the bill — making sure that it is communicated clearly.

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It's not an overnight job, and I understand this is not solely the ministry's job, in the sense that it needs to engage with other stakeholders to make sure that the messages do go out and that the new legislation, in effect, is reinforced, and to make sure that people are aware of it.

The minister at the time, during our committee stage, has committed to making sure that there will be some active engagement from the ministry to hold accountable our partners that we rely on, to make sure that the new Franchises Act is communicated to anybody who is seeking a franchise business.

If the minister can just let us know a little bit about what some of the ministry efforts were on that file so far, for follow-up, and if there any indications, or even just feedback, from the industry about what the results of this legislation were. Has it been proven to be worthwhile and effective, or can we do better in our communications and so on and so forth?

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Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you for bringing forward the Franchises Act and to receive an update on that. It's great that the member who introduced…. I enjoyed going through committee stage with the member opposite on that.

There are two parts of where this process is. Currently JAG, the Attorney General's office, is working on the regulation piece to enforce this legislation. I think what worked really well with the Franchises Act that was introduced is we had such a strong group of experts that helped support us on getting the legislation right. The B.C. Law Institute and others were really thoughtful, engaged experts that we could rely on.

I think it's equally important that currently we're working closely with the advisory group to develop the regulation. That is in process currently. Once the regulation is completed and improved, and the franchise and the legal communities have time to learn about the new law, the regulations will, of course, come into force, which goes to the communication side, which is what the member had asked the question about.

We are going to work closely with the Attorney General's staff to develop the plan. Compliments to the member opposite for ensuring that I made the statement when we were going through that — that on the educational piece to that plan, we needed to have a strategy that reached out to different ethnicities and that from an educational engagement and empowerment strategy, we are doing those wraparounds.

Like I said, it's difficult to create all of that education material until the regulation comes into force and we learn more about what the expert panel is recommending for regulations. But we're starting to lay that groundwork on what will be necessary as far as stakeholders that we need to reach out to. We canvassed that earlier as well.

We've got, obviously, the legislation. We'll continue to develop the materials and the webpage development with, again, that focus on making sure, as we continue to engage with the ministry on what the regulation is going to look like, that where our piece comes in, we've got a good educational plan that is in place once that regulation is put forward.

I encourage the member opposite, when we've got that package, if you would like to review that and if you have ideas on how we can make sure that it is something that is for the ethnic community, we'd be happy to work with you on that.

J. Shin: Thanks to the minister for her answer.

The reason that I think that we can use that particular legislation is that it's an opportunity for us to call on the ministry to really think about their communication efforts. Again, it's about doing good work and making sure that people know about that good work. It is the ministry with contractual obligations. They engage with advocates in small business like Small Business B.C. to do much of that legwork. They are the front-line experts that the government relies on.

But I do believe that it's equally important for the ministry to have leadership on accountability to make sure that communication…. It's teamwork. It's not just the ministry. It's not just Small Business B.C. It's the opposition MLAs. It's all MLAs and all of us, including the stakeholders, that advocated for this — like the Law Society, for example — to make sure that this information and the news goes to the people who will benefit from that extra level of awareness and the new standards that came into effect after so many years of just heartbreaking stories.

[1820]

The intent is to make sure that the awareness is there so that these heartbreaking stories don't happen anymore.

On that, I will ask the ministry to prioritize, among many other priorities, that.... For every new legislation of interest to the small business community, regardless of which ministry the announcement comes from, there's got to be a government-based clear communications strategy that leaves no segment of the population behind — again, another special call-out to the minority communities.

For my part, what I've done is.... I checked in with Small Business B.C. to see how that announcement has gone through at their end with their clients that they service. They did disclose that translating all the pieces was a challenge. Also, making sure that they can leverage the minority media is, again, a challenge. I was able to bridge Small Business B.C. with some of our volunteers. Funding is always an issue, but we have some great volunteers that were able to translate the pieces into Chinese and a couple of other languages.

I pushed that particular piece out, in my own ways, through the contacts that I had in different minority communities. Not only is it my own responsibility as a member in this House, but also, at the same time, I believe that the ministry needs to take leadership and initiative in making sure that there is a streamlined process that all of us can rely on for the communication to go out as it should.

On that note, I just want to get the minister's attention to another thing, which is about funding. We are looking at a ministry with 20 FTEs, as far as the staff structure is concerned, and a budget that's a little over $3 million. The leverage here is not so much about the contractual obligations or the grants for the ministry. It's about what the staff right here can do. On that, before we.... I have some ideas that I just want to bring forward on that.

On the actual spending side, I just wanted to touch on this before we move on. Are there any plans the ministry can see in the foreseeable future as far as funding allocations for the Jobs and Training Ministry versus some of that coming over to the small business area, where I believe it could be catered to better, personally? I find that in between ministries, I think there are missed opportunities and, potentially, duplication or overlap of intent. I see that the chamber of commerce has a formula that I don't quite understand but that's administered through the Jobs and Training Ministry but really speaks to the stakeholders that this particular ministry services.

Also, during the core review on discretionary spending, if this particular ministry sees any cuts in the future that the minister may be aware of or what have you.... So beyond the ministry's budget that we have at hand here, if the minister can let us know of any potential changes — whether cuts or additions or reallocations of funds — that you might be able to share with the House, that would be great.

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Hon. C. Oakes: Thank you to the member opposite for the question. The Minister of Finance determines the allocation during the budget process — on how the ministry's allocation of funds are distributed. I would say something but my staff have advised me that….

I think you asked also about the team of individuals that we have working through the Ministry of Small Business and Red Tape Reduction. It is a very lean team. It's a very small ministry, but I have to tell you I am so incredibly impressed every day by the work and the efforts that they're all doing, given very large tasks. Again, small business covers so many aspects of our economy.

What I can tell you is that all of the economy sector ministries work really, really closely together. We canvassed a little bit earlier about the export strategy, and I think it's an important one. I think what that speaks to is the need for us really to not be working in silos as government but looking at how we can work laterally: leveraging resources, finding better ways, finding efficiencies, looking amongst the teams within government and who has the expertise on the specific files. I think that's where we will see success on that.

Thank you for your support of the ministry and the budget.

J. Shin: I believe we have just a little over 15 minutes left. I do have a closing statement that I should share. I also expect that the minister has her piece as well.

This piece is really for our stakeholders and for the British Columbians who I will be communicating with as to the importance of this estimates process that we had today. The kind of conversation and the dialogue that…. I think we had a very candid one, which I really appreciate. It's to highlight all that.

Like I said before, time and time again, when one speaks of small business, most people aren't picturing a company with 40 employees or with $4 million in revenue, which under the current classification would be defined as small. Like most, I picture instead the likes of a tiny ice cream store that I used to help my parents operate in a struggling mall. I picture instead the dozens of little mama-and-papa shops lining the North Road in my constituency.

According to Statistics Canada, small businesses, as we all know, make up 98 percent of all businesses in this province. A lesser-known fact is that, of course, 55 percent of these — amounting to 290,000 businesses — have no hired help or paid help. It's a one-man operation.

I think this is the piece that I, again, go back to the ministry — as far as making sure that these voices are heard. These voices are missing in your round tables, they're missing in public hearings, they're missing in public consultation, and they're not the ones with memberships taken out at different advocacy organizations. It's a significant number, and the ministry needs to make sure that the ones without voices are the ones that it puts first and foremost in its considerations.

There are approximately 1,700 people estimated to be working in family businesses without collecting any pay to keep their family business going. I speak from experience. We did whatever it took to make sure that it survived.

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From the heavy incorporation and accounting paperwork to the Commercial Tenancy Act, articulated in very complex language with mainly, to date, largely landlords' interests…. A lot of these entrepreneurs, especially the older immigrants who come to this country in their 40s and 50s with significant language barriers, are not only disadvantaged in understanding the policies and the rights that they have for effective negotiations and protection; they're also least likely to claim, let alone to be even aware of, all of the services and programs and resources that we have in this great province or to have the time to participate in accessing those programs and services.

Many of these immigrants and these new entrepreneurs make less than minimum wage by the hour. They are the so-called underinsured working poor, with just enough income to be disqualified from exemptions and subsidies. They are, at the same time, crippled by the increasing user fees like MSP, ICBC, hydro and so on and so forth. Essentially, they are facing the same unaffordability challenges when it comes to housing, daycare, transportation and so on and so forth, just like the rest of us. But we are in a privileged and a better position with jobs that come with benefits and pension plans and so on and so forth that these entrepreneurs are too often without.

The studies do suggest that during uncertain economic times, people turn to self-employment for many reasons: lack of jobs or lack of the credentials for those jobs. This is particularly even more true of immigrants, once again, whose foreign credentials are unrecognized and are often stigmatized at workplaces because of their language or cultural barrier for employment. In 2012, the stats do show that the number of self-employed without paid help was twice that of the self-employed with paid help. This gap seems to be growing over the past decade. It's noteworthy that this is not just related to the entrepreneurs themselves, but it's also a reflection of our society's overall skills development and market readiness as well as the number of jobs that are available.

This is where I have to go with my hard sort of tone. There is no excuse that this government doesn't already have its critical literature translated into the most commonly spoken languages beyond the five that we have, which is great, but we have so many other minority communities. They're the ones with the least amount of resources. For some of the bigger minority communities, they have very savvy and well-established minority organizations, but it's the smaller ones that are really just floundering on their own. This is where I think our government can make a huge difference by saying that no community is too small for the advocacy that they deserve.

I hope that the ministry can make a commitment to ensuring that they continue to improve the accessible literature, whether it's electronically or through multiple languages, beyond government — also with the partners that the ministry works with. I find that it's something to be proud of, yes, for sure, but the Internet's been around for 30 years. It's three decades coming, all the priorities and shifts towards making a lot of the administrative processes available electronically. While it's something to be proud of, I think it's also something to be humbled by: that we are actually making up for lost time.

I would continue to encourage the minister to make way on that front, and again, electronic petitioning is the way to go.

Also, given that this is a province with 1.2 million immigrants, and I'm talking about fairly new immigrants…. Almost all of us are immigrants to British Columbia and North America. But in a province as diverse as ours, with people from over 200 countries, 42,000 newcomers every year to this province, the government pulled back on the adult basic education and the English-language-learning programs. While I understand that this ministry has no direct jurisdiction on the decisions there, it is the advocate for small business in the government with a seat at the cabinet table.

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I do expect and call on the minister to fight hard for programs and services that may not be directly small business but that affect the very entrepreneurs who lack the language skills or who are just a few prerequisite courses away from being able to qualify into better successes that they deserve and they should have as small business owners in B.C.

On that, for me, I love to walk out of any meeting or conversation with action items. I just want to…. I'm pretty sure the ministry staff would love to go through the four, five hours of estimates that we've had to see what the action items were, but I thought I can just do it for you, so I summarized it.

On the funding side, I absolutely encourage this ministry to continue supporting the initiative that it already is engaged with, especially Small Business B.C. I'm a big fan of the work they do, with great performance indicators that they continue to meet and go beyond, as well as the other initiatives that the minister has taken on — Futurpreneur and BizPaL and so on and so forth.

I do call upon the ministry to engage beyond our usual universe of the small business stakeholders and consider engaging, with better leverage, in the BIAs in all of our local communities to include the multicultural communities that we have in B.C. And of course, continue to work with other ministries within the province, as well as our federal counterpart, to continue supporting the programs like the Junior Achievement. I'm a big fan of that particular program. As well, continue to look for ways to bring back some of the previously well-received programs, like work study, and see if we can find funding models that can bring back some of the already tested and proven programs that will benefit the people of today. This is something that I think that all of us can do better on, which is to grow our reach. The ministry needs to continue expanding their database of stakeholders.

Of course, on the red-tape side, I've just got to advocate for what the credit unions have voiced. They expect the ministry to be a strong voice for small businesses with respect to MMBC.

On the data side, it would be great if government can take leadership on the success and the failure rates of the small businesses so that they can fine-tune and have more of an objective to go to the partners with, as opposed to waiting for the partners to come and pitch ideas. I think that the partnership goes both ways, especially given the rich amount of data and the resources that the government has available, which may not be as easy to get for some of the stakeholders that the government works with.

On the communication side, I'm really looking forward to seeing better government guidelines, rich with infographics, simple and easy to understand with great tone that's empowering and not penalizing, available in multiple languages, electronically available, and of course, to be able to have a communication follow-through protocol so that whenever there are announcements that the government has rolled out, they reach the ears that they're intended for.

Lastly, on the representation and the advocacy side, and this is something that…. I have a joke that I say with my colleagues quite frequently. The joke is that I thought I was a Canadian all my life. I grew up as a Canadian, and never have I been so reminded every day that I'm Korean. I'm of Korean descent. In the beginning, I thought that it was quite ironic. I thought: "Why do they continue to remind me that I'm Korean? I'm Korean-Canadian."

It's because there is a real place for advocacy, where there is underrepresentation. The Korean aspect of my Canadian-ness is something that I fully embrace. It's not that I minimize the importance of Canadian culture as a whole, but as long as there is underrepresentation, you're going to hear me speak over and over again very strongly about seeing the kind of representation that I believe that we need to see — not just in our roundtables for small business but in our ministry staff, in our board of directors that we appoint. That's something that, again, I would encourage the minister to pay special attention to and be our advocate where the voices are muted or unheard. So there's that.

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On the last bit, on the advocacy side, please continue working with other ministries to look into ways that we can improve the Commercial Tenancy Act for small business owners, how we can continue to call out for better accountability from the banks and other vendors in the kind of charges that they put forward to small business owners, and what kind of disclosure practices they have.

CFIB has actually been quite a champion on that front, but I would also encourage the ministry to be a good partner in that process. So that's that.

It's been a pleasure to work with the minister. I do want to put it on record that I think that, between the two of us…. I pride myself that we demonstrate the better of the kind of conversations that can be had in this chamber.

It's not one way. I think it takes both of us, and I appreciate your commitment for that and the kind of openness that you've shown for the ideas that I brought forward on behalf of people that I have spoken with.

While I have this opportunity, also the staff the minister works with. The minister, it turns out, doesn't have a magic wand to fix everything. It really comes down to her colleagues that she works with in the ministry and that she's going to need to rely on and to depend on for the kind of very, very important work that she does. Every little decision and every little outreach that you do, you're making a difference in the lives of people.

The Chair: Member, according to Standing Order 45A, 15 minutes is allocated per….

J. Shin: Did I go over 15 minutes?

The Chair: Yes, you have.

J. Shin: Okay. I'll leave it at that, but I just wanted to say thank you for today, and I'll take my seat.

Hon. C. Oakes: To the member opposite, first and foremost, I want to acknowledge and tell you how much I appreciate the fact that not just in estimates but ever since I've had this ministry you have come forward and advocated for small businesses.

You and I both share a passion for ensuring that we have a vibrant, rich, strong small business sector. I think that, as we drive to be the most business-friendly jurisdiction and successful small business jurisdiction, maintaining our number one place for small businesses, it requires collaboration.

It requires the fact that you hold us to account. To the member opposite: you're tough, right? The fact that you've come and you've given very specific items of expectation.... Since I've had the privilege to know you, that is your approach.

You come in. "Here are the goals. Here are the objectives. Here is the measurement. Here are the performance indicators, and guess what. I'm going to come back, and I'm going to ask you where you're at on that."

I think that is what's critically important within government. I think it's important that, with the structure that we have, we do need to be reminded, held to account and to have those conversations.

As the minister, as I mentioned before, I can't do it alone. I cannot do this job and advocate and bring forward the voices of small businesses by myself. I can't do it. You have been a strong ally in ensuring that where there are gaps and where there are things that need to happen, we are listening.

I assure you that what you have brought forward…. We will continue to have this dialogue. I know that you are going to continue to push me on making sure that we are moving forward on the things that you identified.

I did note that there were a couple of other things that I had made commitments to the member opposite that we're going to follow up on, and that includes a best practice employee guide — on what that looks like. We need to absolutely take….

I very clearly have heard what you have said around reaching out to minorities and making sure that the language that we use, the tone that we use, need to be reflective of that. So you have my commitment to work on that. The Franchises Act and the language that we put around that and the stakeholder outreach is critically important, so we'll continue to work through that as well.

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On the red-tape-reduction item, I know that I'm sure that there will be some items that the member opposite has folks that put through on that process, and I look forward to seeing that.

I guess, maybe, just a final comment, and I didn't really know this before today. Probably why we are both so passionate about small business — and I don't think the member knew this — is that my family moved here as immigrants as well. My great-grandparents actually opened an ice cream parlour in Green Timbers.

Interjection.

Hon. C. Oakes: Yes, I know.

I think that having grown up…. My parents owned small businesses as well. I think it gives us a different perspective. I think we can always do better, and we should always strive higher, and we should always ensure that there are things that we can always be doing better to support our citizens and to support our small business.

I'm very confident that the member opposite will continue to keep us accountable. In fact, I expect that from the member opposite, to ensure that we are on track with all of the things that we've identified today.

In closing, I, too, want to thank the staff for doing such a tremendous job.

Vote 40: ministry operations, $3,862,000 — approved.

Hon. C. Oakes: I move that the committee rise, report completion of the resolution and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 6:46 p.m.

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