2002 Legislative Session: 3rd Session, 37th Parliament
The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.
No. 54
OF THE
Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Two o'clock p.m.
Prayers by Mr. Les.
The Hon. G. Plant (Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations) presented to the Speaker a Message from Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor, which read as follows:
Iona Campagnolo
Lieutenant Governor
The Lieutenant Governor transmits herewith Bill (No. 23) intituled Interjurisdictional Support Orders Act and recommends the same to the Legislative Assembly.
Government House
April 3, 2002Bill introduced and read a first time.
Bill Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today.
The Hon. G. Plant (Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Treaty Negotiations) presented to the Speaker a Message from His Honour the Administrator, which read as follows:
Lance Finch
Administrator
The Administrator transmits herewith Bill (No. 30) intituled Trustee Investment Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 and recommends the same to the Legislative Assembly.
Vancouver Law Courts
April 10, 2002Bill introduced and read a first time.
Bill Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today.
The Hon. R. Neufeld, (Minister of Energy and Mines) presented to the Speaker a Message from His Honour the Administrator, which read as follows:
Lance Finch
Administrator
The Administrator transmits herewith Bill (No. 36) intituled Energy and Mines Statutes Amendment Act, 2002 and recommends the same to the Legislative Assembly.
Vancouver Law Courts
April 17, 2002Bill introduced and read a first time.
Bill Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading at the next sitting after today.
Order called for "Members' Statements."
Order called for "Oral Questions by Members."
The Speaker gave his reserved decision as follows:
Honourable Members:
On April 15, during the course of debate on second reading of Bill (No. M 201) intituled Fisheries Act Amendment Act, 2002, the Government House Leader rose on a point of order stating that in his view the bill was out of order on the grounds that the proposed section 13 (5) (a) "requires that a person pay a fee, to be prescribed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council. Therefore, this bill is out of order."
Before dealing with the substance of this point of order, certain events occurred at the opening of the morning session on April 16, which bear comment. Firstly, the Government House Leader rose on a point of order which turned out to be a second submission on the issue raised on April 15, relating to Bill (No. M 201). The submission should not have been made nor heard. It has been a long-standing tradition in this House and in Commonwealth Parliaments that once a point of order has been made and appropriate replies heard and the Chair has reserved its decision, further representations by Members on the matter are inappropriate.
Having heard the Government House Leader, the Chair was obliged to listen to representations by the Leader of the Opposition. As it was inappropriate for the Government House Leader to make a further submission, it was equally inappropriate for the Leader of the Opposition to discuss what advice she had received from an Officer of this House. Furthermore, to imply that there was some nexus between an opinion expressed by an Officer of the House and the fresh submission made by the Government House Leader is not only inaccurate but improper.
To the extent that the Chair was in error in hearing these additional submissions from either side of the House, the Chair apologizes. I do note, however, that at the time the additional submissions were made the Chair observed that the points raised were well known, the matter was in hand and that the decision would be made on an impartial basis, relying on long established precedents of this House. Let me assure all Honourable Members that the decision on the original point of order as raised on April 15, has not been influenced in the slightest by these additional submissions which, apart from the comments I have made above, are being treated as a nullity.
When the status of a bill or a motion before the House is raised on a point of order, it is the Chair's duty to consider the points raised and, in addition, to examine the bill or motion in all its aspects and apply the appropriate parliamentary law. I ask the House to bear with me as this matter is one of some complexity.
A key Standing Order of this House affecting the propriety of bills and motions is Standing Order 67 which reads as follows:
"It shall not be lawful for the House to adopt or pass any vote, resolution, address, or Bill for the appropriation of any part of the public revenue, or of any tax or impost, to any purpose that has not been first recommended to the House by Message of the Lieutenant-Governor in the Session in which such vote, resolution, address or Bill is proposed. (Vide R.S.B.C. 1960, chap. 71, sec. 52 (Constitution Act).)"
I should add that the wording of this Standing Order is virtually repeated in section 47 of the Constitution Act of British Columbia.
On examination of the questioned bill, the proposed amendment to section 13 of the Act has two paragraphs, paragraph (a) which repeats verbatim section 13 (5) of the existing Act and paragraph (b) which presents a novel proposition which I quote:
The key question for the Chair to consider is whether or not the proposed section 13 (5) (b) as quoted above amounts to an impost and, in the absence of a Message, is out of order by virtue of the provisions of Standing Order 67.
In this regard, the Chair has found considerable assistance in the decision of Mr. Speaker Whittaker reported in the Journals of this House on November 29, 1939, page 77. In that case, Speaker Whittaker was required to make a determination as to whether a bill before the House requiring provincial mines to provide certain accommodation to employees was in order. The learned Speaker examined in considerable detail the distinction between "impost" and "tax" as contemplated by Standing Order 67 and concluded that the requirement to provide accommodation under the proposed bill "would undoubtedly involve a charge upon a section of the people." The view as stated by Speaker Whittaker was adopted by later decisions of the House including a decision by Speaker Irwin reported in the Journals of the House, October 17, 1953, at page 72, and a further decision by Speaker Hartley reported in the Journals of this House on April 3, 2001, at page 42. I note that Standing Order 67 in 1939 is identical in wording as Standing Order 67 today.
In the result the Chair has had to resolve two questions:
1. Is the Chair obligated to examine the bill as a whole, notwithstanding that the point of order raised does not identify with exactitude the potential flaw in the bill?
2. Does the proposed subsection (b) of the bill create an impost as contemplated by Standing Order 67?
Conventions relating to the duty of a Presiding Officer and precedents of this House produced an answer in the affirmative to both questions.
The practical effect of enacting subsection (b) as proposed would be to require those engaged in finfish aquaculture to convert to a closed containment facility. The result would, to quote the words of Speaker Whittaker, "involve a charge upon a section of the people" and, therefore, the bill is out of order in the hands of a Private Member, and I so rule.
Claude Richmond, Speaker
The Hon. J. Murray (Minister of Water, Land and Air Protection) tabled the Ministry of Environment, Lands and Parks Annual Report 2001 for Fiscal Years 1999/2000 and 2000/2001.
The House proceeded to "Orders of the Day."
Order for Committee of Supply called.
Pursuant to Sessional Order, order called for Section A of Committee of Supply.
The House resumed the adjourned debate on the amendment to the motion for second reading of Bill (No. 26) intituled Employment and Assistance Act.
The amendment was negatived on the following division:
|
YEAS -- 2 |
|||
| MacPhail | Kwan | ||
|
NAYS -- 64 |
|||
| Falcon Coell Hogg L. Reid Halsey-Brandt Hawkins Whittred Cheema Hansen J. Reid Santori van Dongen Barisoff Nettleton Wilson Lee |
Thorpe Hagen Murray Plant Clark Bond Abbott Neufeld Coleman Weisbeck Chong Penner Jarvis Anderson Orr Harris |
Nuraney Brenzinger R. Stewart Bell Chutter Long Mayencourt Johnston Belsey Hayer Christensen Krueger McMahon Bray Les Locke |
Nijjar Bhullar Wong Lekstrom MacKay Cobb Bloy Suffredine Brice Sultan Hamilton Sahota Hawes Kerr Manhas Hunter |
The debate was resumed on the main motion.
Ms. MacPhail moved the following amendment--
That the motion for second reading of Bill (No. 26) intituled Employment and Assistance Act, be amended by striking out the words after "that" and inserting "This House declines to give second reading to Bill (No. 26), intituled the Employment and Assistance Act for the reason that the Bill, in principle, puts at risk the lives of those who have no other means of support or assistance."
The debate on the amendment continued.
On the motion of Ms. Kwan, the debate on the amendment was adjourned until later today.
The House recessed until 6.30 p.m.
The House resumed the adjourned debate on the amendment to the motion for second reading of Bill (No. 26) intituled Employment and Assistance Act.
The amendment was negatived on the following division:
|
YEAS -- 2 |
|||
| MacPhail | Kwan | ||
|
NAYS -- 60 |
|||
| Falcon Coell Hogg L. Reid Halsey-Brandt Hawkins Whittred Cheema J. Reid Bruce Santori Barisoff Nettleton Lee Thorpe |
Hagen Murray Plant Clark Bond de Jong Stephens Abbott Coleman Weisbeck Penner Anderson Harris Nuraney Brenzinger |
R. Stewart Bell Chutter Long Mayencourt Johnston Belsey Hayer Christensen Krueger McMahon Bray Les Locke Nijjar |
Bhullar Visser Lekstrom MacKay Cobb K. Stewart Suffredine Brice Sultan Hamilton Sahota Hawes Kerr Manhas Hunter |
By leave, the Hon. R. Thorpe (Minister of Competition, Science and Enterprise) tabled the Job Protection Commission Annual Report 2000.
The debate was resumed on the main motion.
The House divided.
Motion agreed to on the following division:
|
YEAS -- 59 |
|||
| Falcon Coell Hogg L. Reid Halsey-Brandt Hawkins Whittred Cheema J. Reid Bruce Santori Barisoff Nettleton Lee Thorpe |
Hagen Murray Plant Clark Bond de Jong Stephens Abbott Coleman Weisbeck Penner Harris Nuraney Brenzinger R. Stewart |
Bell Chutter Long Mayencourt Johnston Belsey Hayer Christensen Krueger McMahon Bray Les Locke Nijjar Bhullar |
Visser Lekstrom MacKay Cobb K. Stewart Suffredine Brice Sultan Hamilton Sahota Hawes Kerr Manhas Hunter |
|
NAYS -- 3 |
|||
| MacPhail | Kwan | Anderson | |
Bill (No. 26) read a second time and Ordered to be placed on the Orders of the Day for committal at the next sitting after today.
On the motion for second reading of Bill (No. 27) intituled Employment and Assistance for Persons with Disabilities Act, a debate arose.
The debate continued.
Ms. MacPhail moved the following amendment --
That the motion for second reading for Bill (No. 27) intituled Employment and Assistance for Persons with Disabilities Act, be amended by deleting the word "now" and adding the words "on this day six months hence."
The debate on the amendment continued.
On the motion of Ms. MacPhail, the debate on the amendment was adjourned to the next sitting of the House.
(In Committee -- Section A)
14. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $415,061,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Ministry of Attorney General, Ministry Operations, to 31st March, 2003.
15. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $51,193,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Ministry of Attorney General, Treaty Negotiations Office, to 31st March, 2003.
16. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $30,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Ministry of Attorney General, Statutory Services, to 31st March, 2003.
17. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $50,360,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Ministry of Attorney General, Judiciary, to 31st March, 2003.
1. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $39,332,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Legislation, Legislation, to 31st March, 2003.
2. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $8,364,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Auditor General, to 31st March, 2003.
3. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $292,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Conflict of Interest Commissioner, to 31st March, 2003.
4. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $13,589,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Elections BC, to 31st March, 2003.
5. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $2,130,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Information and Privacy Commissioner, to 31st March, 2003.
6. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $1,491,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Office of the Child, Youth and Family Advocate, to 31st March, 2003.
7. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $4,549,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Ombudsman, to 31st March, 2003.
8. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $1,101,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Officers of the Legislature, Police Complaint Commissioner, to 31st March, 2003.
46. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $920,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Management of Public Funds and Debt, Management of Public Funds and Debt, to 31st March, 2003.
47. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $91,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of BC Family Bonus, BC Family Bonus, to 31st March, 2003.
48. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $230,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Government Restructuring (All Ministries), Government Restructuring (All Ministries), to 31st March, 2003.
49. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $210,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Contingencies (All Ministries) and New Programs, to 31st March, 2003.
50. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $1,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Commissions on Collection of Public Funds and Allowances for Doubtful Revenue Accounts, to 31st March, 2003.
52. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $1,967,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Environmental Boards and Forest Appeals Commission, to 31st March, 2003.
53. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $4,822,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Forest Practices Board, to 31st March, 2003.
54. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $1,939,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Public Sector Employers' Council, to 31st March, 2003.
55. Resolved, That a sum not exceeding $50,000,000 be granted to Her Majesty to defray the expenses of Other Appropriations, Seismic Mitigation, to 31st March, 2003.
Section A of Committee of Supply reported the Resolutions and completion of the estimates of the Ministry of Attorney General and Ministry Responsible for Treaty Negotiations; Legislation; Officers of the Legislature, and Other Appropriations.
Report to be considered at the next sitting.
Committee to sit again at the next sitting.
By agreement, summary debate of estimates passed in Section A (Ministry of Attorney General and Ministry Responsible for Treaty Negotiations; Legislation; Officers of the Legislature, and Other Appropriations) to be considered at the next sitting.
And then the House adjourned at 8.56 p.m.
CLAUDE RICHMOND, Speaker
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